从逾越节到复活节 Okay, so where were we last week?
我们上周讲到哪里了 Just to remind us of where we are
回忆一下上周讲到哪里了 So on Monday last week
上周一 we looked at Exodus 12, right
我们讲了出埃及记第12章 the main chapter
主要章节 that describes, outlines the details
描述了 概括了 of the paschal lambs
逾越节羔羊的细节 the sacrifice of the Pesah
逾越节的祭品 or the paschal lamb
或者说逾越节羔羊 And we looked at attending passages
我们还讲了相关段落 Which the paschal lamb has
也就是逾越节羊羔 an educational function as I called it
有我称之为教育功能 Right, it is a moment for
这是一个时刻 a teaching moment
用来教育的时刻 as our present would say
我们现在会这样说 A moment when the parents
是一个父母 is supposed to teach the son, child
教育儿子 孩子的时刻 about the miracles that
关于上帝把 God brought to the people of Israel
以色列人带出埃及 when they left Egypt
的奇迹 That is the scriptural hook upon
这就是拉比逾越节家宴 which the rabbis hung a Seder
在圣经中的一个支点 That's Wednesday's talk last week
上周三我们讲过的 Right, and which I argued
而我认为 is one of the main points that emerged
其中出现的一个重点 was that the Seder
就是逾越节家宴 namely a scripted, ritualized meal
也就是脚本化的 仪式化的晚餐 a scriptural ritualized discussion
脚本化的仪式化的对话 scriptural interpretation
脚本化的解读 questions and answers, gesture
问题和答案 手势 that whole ritualized moment
整个仪式化的过程 That is not the simple meaning of passages
这不是出埃及记或者申命记 in Exodus or Deuteronomy
段落里面简单的含义 And in all likelihood
而很可能 that scripted ritualized Seder
脚本化仪式化的逾越节家宴 is a product of the post-70 period
是公元70年代后的产物 What happens in 70?
公元70年发生了什么 The temple was destroyed
神庙被摧毁了 I know it's Monday morning
我知道今天是周一的早晨 we are trying to wake up, yes
我们都想清醒点儿 没错 Exactly, right
都是这样 没错 So 70, the temple is destroyed
公元70年 神庙被摧毁了 There is no paschal lamb
再也没有了逾越节羔羊 So before that the main point
在这之前逾越节晚上最重要的 the main course, the main focus
主要的一道菜 主要的焦点 of the evening was the paschal lamb
就是逾越节羔羊 After 70, we no longer have the paschal lamb
公元70年以后 我们没有逾越节羔羊了 the main thing becomes the script
重点变成了脚本 becomes the discussion
变成了对话 becomes the text
变成了文本 becomes question and answer
变成了问题和答案 We talk about that which isn't here any longer
我们讨论的东西已经不复存在了 the paschal lamb
也就是逾越节羔羊 Okay, that's last week
这些就是上周讲的 Now today we are going to look at
今天我们会讲 Christian material
基督教的部分 And here I got
我这里有 I'm jumping ahead a second
我往前跳一点点 here on your handout
在你们的讲义里面 But here are the two Christian trajectories
这里有两条基督教的轨迹 we'll be looking at
我们会讲到 So I'm pointing at it with my pointer
我用鼠标指着的这个 From the Passover sacrifice to Easter
从逾越节祭品到复活节 and from the Passover sacrifice
从逾越节祭品 to the Eucharist
到圣餐 These are two parallel Christian trajectories
这是两个平行的基督教轨迹 that come out at the same place
发生在相同的地方 Namely Pesah, paschal lamb, right?
也就是逾越节 逾越节羔羊 对吧 They wind up in different places
最后变成了基督教礼拜仪式 in the Christian liturgy
基督教日历里面的 the Christian calendar
不同形式 One is Easter
其一是复活节 the festival of the resurrection of Christ
庆祝基督复活的节日 The other one is Eucharist, right?
另外一个是圣餐 or the Communion
或者说圣餐仪式 Which is, I would say
我想说 圣餐 along with Baptism
和洗礼一起 the main Christian ritual
是基督教的主要仪式 That's where we are going today
这些是我们今天要讲的内容 But I'm going back to
但是我会先回到 the beginning of the handout
讲义的开头 So a whole bunch of terms
有一些术语 you wanna make sure we all understand
我们要务必先搞清楚 so you don't get confused
这样才不会迷惑 Brief review, okay?
简单说一下 好吧 So Nisan is the word I would use
我会用尼散月这个词 to refer to the first month
来指代第一个月 in the Jewish calendar
犹太教日历的第一个月 It's the spring month
是春天的一个月 Remember the calendar is by the moon?
还记得基于月亮的日历吗 Seasons are by the sun
季节由太阳决定 So the first month of Nisan
所以尼散月 is always in the spring, right?
总是在春天 对吧 Nisan is a post Biblical word
尼散月是后圣经时代的词 you will not find it anywhere in Scripture
在圣经里面是找不到这个词的 Scripture simply calls it the first month
圣经只是简单叫做第一个月 The first month
第一个月 So the month of Nisan
尼散月 or the first month, spring month
这第一个月 春天的一个月 the 14th day in the afternoon
第14天的下午 you slaughter the paschal lamb
屠宰逾越节羔羊 as the 14th wanes and the 15th waxes
第14天结束第15天来临 as we enter from sunset
从傍晚开始 the 14th, the 15th
第14天 第15天 we eat the paschal lamb into midnight
我们在午夜吃逾越节羔羊 on the night of the 15th
在第15天的晚上 Okay, just a reminder
只是回顾下 The 15th of Nisan is the first day
尼散月的第15天是 what's colloquially called Passover
通俗地叫做逾越节 Or the 7-day matzah festival
或者叫七天的无酵节的第一天 which we call paradoxically Pesah
我们也似是而非地叫逾越节 or Passover, okay?
逾越节 对吧 Questions on that?
有问题吗 This is a review
这些是复习 Next, when is Easter?
接下来 什么是复活节 Easter is the Christian festival
复活节是基督教的节日 celebrating the resurrection of Christ
来庆祝基督的复活 According to Christian belief
根据基督教的信仰 Jesus Christ was tried, executed, crucified
耶稣基督被审判 被处决 被钉上十字架 died on the cross
死在了十字架上 was buried, and then was resurrected
然后被埋葬 然后他复活了 i.e., we have story of the empty tomb
也就是那个空坟墓的故事 The disciples returned
门徒们回来了 they found the tomb was empty
他们发现坟墓是空的 He's out of here, he is gone
基督不在里面 他不见了 He's been resurrected
他复活了 He's returned to heaven
他回到了天堂 To commemorate that
为了纪念这个 central moment of Christianity
基督教中的重要时刻 we have the festival of Easter
就有了复活节 That's what we call in English
这是英语的叫法 where does the name Easter come from?
复活节这个词是从哪里来的 Easter apparently derives
复活节很明显起源于 from the Saxon goddess Eostre
撒克逊女神厄俄斯特 I've no idea how to pronounce that
我不知道应该怎么读 Right, some Saxon goddess
是撒克逊女神 Which means that
也就是说 Lurking beneath the festival Easter
隐藏在复活节背后的 is a whole pagan component
完全是异教徒的元素 Saxon goddesses, you know
撒克逊女神 That's a whole pagan component
这完全是异教徒元素 That brings us Easter bunnies
这带来了复活节兔子 and Easter eggs and Easter chocolates
复活节彩蛋和复活节巧克力 and God knows what else
天知道还有什么 I'm not interested in that
我对此不感兴趣 I'm not talking about that here
我要讲的不是这个 We are talking about
我们要讲的是 true genuine Christian Easter
真正的基督教的复活节 The festival of the resurrection
庆祝基督复活的节日 Right, luckily for us
幸运的是 the whole bunch of Romance languages
罗曼斯语里面 call it not Easter but
不用Easter这个词 as you'll see in the next bullet point
可以在下一个要点看到 Paque, or Pasqua
Paque 或者Pasqua Which we could see
可以看到 Lurking behind Paque or Pasqua
在Paque或者Pasqua背后 is the name Pesah
是Pesah这个名字 But interestingly enough
但是非常有趣的是 It's not actually Pesah
这其实不是Pesah There's a very fascinating formation over here
这里有很迷人的构词法 Right, what's lurking behind that
隐藏在这个后面的 is the Greek word Pascha
是希腊词Pascha Which goes into Latin, Pascha
是来自拉丁语的 Pascha And that's how we get Paque and Pasqua
这就是Paque和Pasqua的出处 Pascha in Greek means suffer
Pascha在希腊语里面是受苦的意思 From the root, paschein, to suffer
来自paschein的词根 受苦 So the festival of Pascha, Greek
所以Pascha的节日 希腊语 is the celebration of
是在庆祝 or marks the suffering of Christ
或者说纪念基督的苦难 Latin, passion
拉丁词 passion That's what passion means
这就是passion的意思 Passion means the suffering of Christ
Passion的意思是基督的苦难 And that by curious coincidence
然后鬼使神差地 sounds just like Pesah
听起来像是Pesah which is the Hebrew name for Passover
是希伯来词里面的逾越节 Nothing to do with each other, right
两个词之间完全没有关系 Just a shocking coincidence
只是令人难以置信的巧合 So we need to determine
所以我们要记得 keep in mind sometimes
在看基督教文献的时候 we are looking at Christian texts
需要判断一下 Are we celebrating the suffering of Christ?
我们是在庆祝基督的苦难 Or are we celebrating the resurrection of Christ?
还是在庆祝基督的复活 Or both?
或者二者皆有 The part of the holy week, the rituals
圣周的一部分 仪式部分 Which brings us to the holy Thursday
从圣周四开始 Holy Friday, Holy Saturday and then Easter
圣周五 圣周六 然后是复活节 Right, is this combination of
这是耶稣的苦难 the suffering of Christ and the resurrection
和耶稣的复活的结合体 But fundamentally Easter is resurrection
但是本质上复活节是关于复活 That's our main, the main point, okay?
这是我们的重点 好吧 Last is Eucharist
最后是圣餐 What is Eucharist?
什么是圣餐 Eucharistia in Greek means giving thanks
Eucharistia在希腊语里面是感谢的意思 Thanksgiving
感恩 So technically Christians have
所以其实基督教 Thanksgiving all the time, right?
一直都在过感恩节 对吧 They are not just in November
不只是在11月 Right, Eucharistia or giving thanks
Eucharistia或者说是感谢 We'll see the Gospel passages
我们会看到福音书的段落 where the word is used
里面用了这个词 Giving thanks or blessing
感谢或者祝福 perhaps it is translated
可能是这样翻译 The Christian ritual of eating bread
基督教吃面包 and drinking wine instituted by Jesus
和喝酒的仪式在最后的晚餐过程中 during the Last Supper
由耶稣创立 What is the Last Supper?
什么是最后的晚餐 Alright? It's not a trick question
这不是什么难题 What is the Last Supper?
什么是最后的晚餐 Okay, we need to work on religious literacy
好吧 我们需要学一些宗教文化 Okay, so the Last Supper is
最后的晚餐是 the meal eaten by Jesus with his disciples
耶稣和他的门徒吃的一顿饭 It's the last meal before he is arrested
是他被捕之前的最后一顿饭 and then taken off to be tried and executed
之后被带走审判并处决 Okay that's the Last Supper
这就是最后的晚餐 And that we have the
在这里有 so-called Words of Institution
所谓的祝圣祷文 Which Jesus said at the time
也就是耶稣在 of the Last Supper
最后的晚餐说的 according to Matthew, Mark and Luke
依据的是马太 马克和路加福音的记载 not John, as we'll discuss in a moment
约翰福音没有说 我们过一会儿讨论 Right, this is my body
这是我的身体 This is my blood, right?
这是我的血 对吧 And you are to eat, okay
你们要吃 We'll see that in a moment
我们马上会讲到 That's the Last Supper
这就是最后的晚餐 At which Jesus instituted the Eucharist
在此耶稣创立了圣餐 and that then becomes
之后成为了 the standard Christian ritual
基督教的基本仪式 the highlight of the Christian worship service
基督教主日崇拜的重点 with the Eucharist
也就是圣餐 sometimes called Communion
有时会叫圣餐仪式 You guys all didn't know that?
你们都不知道这个吗 Or is it Monday morning, which one is it?
还是因为周一早晨没睡醒 是哪个原因 Monday morning, yeah
周一早晨没睡醒 Okay, move right along
好了 继续往下讲 Quick review of chronology
快速复习下年表 I'm not gonna review that
我不会复习这个 I won't spend time on that
我不想在这上面花时间 But here is a quick review
但是要快速复习下 Shaye review
Shaye复习法 Okay, here it is
好了 开始了 Here is the quick review
开始快速复习 Paul in the 50s
保罗是在公元50年代 The Gospel of Mark is probably
马可福音可能是 the earliest around 70, right?
早于公元70年左右 Just before, just after
就在神庙 the destruction of the temple
被摧毁的前后 Matthew and Luke are in the 80s
马太福音和路加福音在公元80年代 perhaps early 90s
也可能是公元90年代前期 We think Matthew Mark and Luke together
马太 马克和路加福音加在一起 are called the Synoptic Gospels
被叫做对观福音书 Right, it's the handy way to
这是对这三个福音 refer to the three together
很方便的叫法 Matthew, Mark and Luke
马太 马克和路加福音 are the Synoptic Gospels, why?
是对观福音书 为什么 Take my course on the direction
听听我讲新约的课 to the New Testament
就知道了 The Gospel of John is around the year 100 CE
约翰福音是在公元100年左右 the latest of the four canonical Gospels
最后一个四大权威福音书 We think around 100
我们认为是在公元100年左右 What does CA mean as I write every time?
我每次写的CA是什么意思 What is CA?
什么是CA Circa?
大约 Circa, right, approximately
大约 没错 近似 Right, approximately
近似 Again, you knows these days
你们都知道这些日期 with lots of 0s in them
有很多的零 you know right away
一眼就能看明白 they are approximately
都是近似的 Okay, Epistle of Barnabas
巴纳巴斯使徒书 is an old friend of ours
是我们的老朋友了 I'm not gonna talk about him today
今天不会讲到他 Just putting him back in here
只是在这里提一下 just for you to have a context of things
让你们对整体有个概念 Barnabas, Justin Martyr
巴纳巴斯 殉道士犹斯丁 are our good friend, 160
我们的好朋友 公元160年 Melito of Sardis
撒狄的墨利托 we'll talk about on Wednesday
我们会在周三讲到 Circa 180
大约在公元180年 And our friend Mishnah Pesahim
然后是密西拿逾越节 The Mishnah, around 200
密西拿 公元200年左右 Just have a sense of where we are
只是让大家对年表 in the chronology
有一个印象 Okay, now ready to go
好了 可以继续讲了 You have questions?
有问题吗 Something I can do to wake you up?
有什么方法能把你们弄清醒吗 Beyond being my usual charming
除了我一贯的迷人 brilliant self?
天才的气质 Nay, it won't help, even that won't help, alright
啊 都没用 这些都没用 好吧 So, let's get to work
咱们继续讲 So first trajectory
第一条轨迹 Around Pesah sacrifice to the Last Supper
从逾越节祭品到最后的晚餐 to the Passion to Easter
到耶稣受难到复活节 That's our first trajectory
这是第一条轨迹 So, here we have
我给大家 a very complicated chart for you
做了个很复杂的表格 which I am quite proud, right?
我很为此骄傲 Describing how the Gospels understand
描述了福音书是如何理解 relationship between the last days of Jesus
耶稣的最后日子和 and the Jewish Pesah
犹太人逾越节 or Passover festival
之间的关系的 Okay, all four Gospels connected, right?
四大福音书是有联系的 对吧 as everybody knows
大家都知道 There is unanimity
这是无异议的 There's some kind of connection between
耶稣的最后的日子和 the last days of Jesus and
犹太人的逾越节之间 the Jewish festival of Passover
是有联系的 Passover sacrifice and the Passover festival
逾越节祭品和逾越节 But how exactly to align things up?
但是具体是怎么样的呢 We have a major disagreement
这里有一个主要分歧 between the synoptics
存在于对观福音书 Matthew, Mark, Luke
马太 马克 路加福音 The synoptics and John
和约翰福音之间 So let's first look at the synoptics
我们先来看看对观福音书 Here is the table
就是这个表格 Synotics again, Matthew, Mark and Luke
对观福音书 马太 马克 路加福音 What does this X mean?
表格里面的X是什么意思 This X means crucifixion
X是指被钉上十字架 And what is the arrow point in heavenward means?
那个往上指的箭头是什么意思 Resurrection
复活 Okay, just to understand my little table
好了 大家要知道表格里面符号的含义 So, according to Matthew, Mark and Luke
根据马太 马克 路加福音 We have something called the Last Supper
有一样叫做最后的晚餐的东西 which, I'm 99% sure
我99%肯定 was meant to be understood as a paschal meal
这就是要理解成是逾越节晚餐 What is the Last Supper?
什么是最后的晚餐 Jesus and his disciples
耶稣和他的门徒 his 12 disciples, his 12 apostles
他的12个门徒 12个使徒 are sitting around and eating the pascal meal
坐下来吃逾越节晚餐 Now, I do wish the Gospels had been
我非常希望福音书 100% unambiguous and clear on this point
能够100%清楚明白地确认这一点 And I agree with you it's not 100% clear
我也同意这不是100%确定 But, ah, it's gotta be
但是应该是这样 there, that's my argument
这就是我的观点 It's gotta be, or surely
应该是这样 或者说肯定 We meant to understand it
我们要把这理解成 as a paschal meal
是逾越节晚餐 So Jesus and his apostles
耶稣和他的门徒 are sitting and eating a paschal meal
坐下来吃了一顿逾越节晚餐 When does one sit and eat a pascal meal, class?
什么时候才会坐下来吃逾越节晚餐呢 同学们 Well, after it's been slaughtered
祭品被屠宰 It's been slaughtered
在第14天的下午 on the 14th day in the afternoon
祭品被屠宰 and you eat it in the evening of the 15th
然后在第15天的晚上吃 which follows immediately
紧跟着 upon the 14th daytime
第14天的白天 evening brings it to the 15th
到第15天的晚上 So, therefore
所以 that night of the Last Supper is here
最后的晚餐的那一晚 It's the 14th day of Nisan
是尼散月的第14天 sliding into the 15th day of Nisan
进入到尼散月第15天 Now the Gospels are also unanimous
福音书还一致同意 that Jesus dies
耶稣死了 namely, is crucified and dies
也就是被钉上十字架死了 or executed, right, on a Friday
或者说被处决了 发生在星期五 From which I deduce
所以我可以推论 that the 14th day would be Thursday
那个第14天会是星期四 the 14th day in the evening begins the 15th
第14天的晚上进入第15天 That's the night of the Last Supper
这就是最后晚餐那个晚上 and then we have
然后耶稣的 a very busy schedule for Jesus
日程表会非常忙 Because on the 14th day in the evening
因为在第14天的晚上 into the 15th
进入到第15天 he has his Last Supper with his apostles
他和他的门徒吃了最后的晚餐 He gets arrested
然后他被抓了 He gets schlepped off to
他被带到了 the Sanhedrin for inquiry
最高法院盘问 The Sanhedrin condemns him
最高法院给他定了罪 hands him over to Pontius Pilate
把他交给了彼拉多总督 who condemns him yet again
再次给他定罪 And according to other Gospels
然后根据福音书说的 he perhaps had yet another hearing too
他可能还参加了另外一次审判 He's thrown to Agrippa
然后送到了阿古利巴 Sorry, he was thrown in the Antipas
抱歉 是送到了安迪帕斯 He got, another hearing there also
然后又一次被审判 He gets condemned
再次被定罪 and on Friday
然后在星期五 sometime during the day of Friday
在星期五的某个时候 he then gets crucified
他被钉上了十字架 and he dies
然后死了 And I would say it's a very busy schedule
我要说这个日程表真的非常忙 And if you object
如果你反对说 Why does the Jewish Sanhedrin
为什么犹太最高法院 and the pious priests try him
虔诚的祭司会在 on the 15th day of Nisan
尼散月第15天审判他 which is the first day of the Passover festival
这是逾越节的第一天 Can't he just wait a couple of days
就不能等上几天吗 This guy has been sitting there
耶稣反正也在这里 for a month anyway
呆了一个多月了 What's the big hurry?
着什么急 Excellent question
非常好的问题 But that's not our problem right now
但是这个不是我们要讨论的问题 So 14th day then is a Thursday
第14天是一个星期四 15th is the Friday
第15天是星期四 The 15th of Nisan is the first day
尼散月的第15天是 of the 7-day matzah festival
七天无酵节的第一天 colloquially called Passover
通俗地说就是逾越节 The first day, Jesus dies
第一天 耶稣死了 He's on, very close on
非常接近于 before the onset of the Sabbath
安息日的开始 which is the 15th, the late afternoon
也就是第15天的下午 before the onset, he's quickly
就在安息日到来之前 He's quickly, take
他很快被带走 bodies taken down and buried
他的尸体被带走埋了起来 And then, we have the story
然后就有了 the empty tomb, the resurrection
空坟墓和复活的故事 on that Sunday
发生在星期日 Which apply mathematically
如果算一下 has to be the 17th
会是第17天 Sunday morning
星期日早晨 So the resurrection happens
所以复活发生在 in the evening of the 16th into the 17th
第16天到第17天的晚上 Okay, everybody got that?
大家都清楚了吗 Now this chronology is not 100% sure
这个时间不一定是100%正确 I mean if you read the Gospels very carefully
我的意思是如果你非常仔细地读福音书 you will get some confusing signals
会发现一些令人迷惑的地方 I admit that
我承认这点 But I'm not gonna worry about it here
但是在这里我们先不管这个 This is probably the simplest way
这可能是最简单的 to understand the chronology of the 3 synotics
理解三部对观福音书时间表的方法 In contrast, is the Gospel of John
大不相同的 是约翰福音 In Gospel of John, there is no Last Supper
在约翰福音里面 没有最后的晚餐 We'll see the texts one second
我们等一下会看 There is no Last Supper in Gospel of John
在约翰福音里面没有最后的晚餐 John leaves out the Last Supper
约翰没提到最后的晚餐 or at least put it more accurately
或者更加准确地说 when John gives you the chronology
在约翰给出的时间表里 the narrative of those final days of Jesus
耶稣最后日子的叙述里 he has no Last Supper
没有最后的晚餐 There may be an illusion to
会产生一种幻觉 the Last Supper narrative much earlier
最后的晚餐发生的时间远远早于 in the yarn John 6
约翰福音第6章 But in actual narrative, there is none
但是实际的叙事中 没有最后的晚餐 Jesus just gets arrested
耶稣只是被抓起来了 Why is there no Last Supper
为什么在约翰福音里面 in the Gospel of John?
没有最后的晚餐 Because on the Gospel of John
因为在约翰福音里面 Jesus doesn't not sit
耶稣没有坐下来 and have a paschal meal with his disciples
和他的门徒吃逾越节晚餐 as in Matthew, Mark and Luke
像是马太 马克和路加福音说的那样 Jesus IS the paschal meal
耶稣就是逾越节晚餐 Jesus IS the paschal lamb
耶稣就是逾越节羔羊 Jesus dies on the cross
耶稣死在了十字架上 is the paschal lamb being slaughtered
就是逾越节羔羊被屠宰了 If that's true
如果这是真的 then the chronology of Gospel of John means
那么约翰福音的时间表意味着 that Friday of Jesus's crucifixion
耶稣受难的那个星期五 must be the 14th
肯定是第14天 And neither the 13th
而不是第13天 There is no Last Supper
没有最后的晚餐 There is no paschal meal
没有逾越节晚餐 It's just a meal
只是一顿饭 So the 14th is the day of the crucifixion
所以第14天被钉上十字架 which is also not coincidentally
同样也不是巧合 the day of the slaughter of the paschal lamb
这天是屠宰逾越节羔羊的日子 cos Christ is the paschal lamb
而基督就是逾越节羔羊 And therefore the rest of the chronology plays out
这也是后面的时间表所呈现的 Okay, you understand this key point
要弄清楚这个关键点 This is big, this is very big, alright?
这是个重点 非常重要 I'll go over now with
接下来我会讲 What these three synoptics
这三部对观福音书如何 tell us about Matthew
讲述马太 tell us about the Last Supper?
讲述最后的晚餐 And then we will compare
然后我们会 and contrast that with John
和约翰福音做一下对比 And then we'll get to Easter
然后会讲到复活节 Okay, questions anyone?
有人有问题吗 Did they tell you anything
这和你们在主日学校 differently in Sunday school?
学到的有什么不一样吗 Or they didn't touch these in Sunday school
或者在主日学校里面根本没讲这些 This lag asking whether Yeshiva
我会问犹太高校里面 discussed contradictions between
会不会讲到利未记 Leviticus and Deuteronomy, right?
和申命记的不一致 He just don't do that in Hebrew school
在希伯来学校不会讲这个 So contradiction between
所以在约翰 马太 John Matthew Martin and Luke
马克和路加福音的不一致 He just don't do that in Sunday school, I assume
我想在主日学校也不会讲 But hey, you are in college
但是你们是在大学里面了 Okay, let's now look at what the hell
咱们来看看三个对观福音书 the three synoptics look at the Last Supper
是如何看待最后的晚餐的 and talk about presumably
然后讨论下 aspects of that Last Supper
最后的晚餐可能的概念 Okay, I gave you the main texts
我给了大家主要的段落 I gave you in small print on your handout
在你们讲义上用小字给出来的 But not to mention that you have to
但是别忘了你们必须要 read them in your homework for today
把这些当成今天的作业去读 So Thursday, the 14th day of Nisan
所以星期四 尼散月的第14天 Small print, not gonna worry about it
不用去管小字说明 So the Friday crucifixion
钉上十字架的那个星期五 is the 15th day of Nisan
是尼散月的第15天 The Last Supper is a paschal meal
最后的晚餐是逾越节晚餐 But it's not quite a Seder
但还不是逾越节家宴 It's not quite a Seder
还不是逾越节家宴 I see trappings through of a paschal meal
我看到了逾越节晚餐的样式 We seem to have a fancy meal
看起来是一顿大餐 including dipping
包括蘸调料 as you see Jesus said
因为耶稣说了 The one who had dipped his hand
同我蘸手在盘子里的 into the bowl with me will betray me
就是他要卖我 Right? From which I deduce
所以我推断出 they are eating when they are dipping
他们吃东西的时候包括蘸调料 Which is the standard way
这也是Bahr在他文章里面 as Bahr discusses in his article
所持的基本观点 I asked you to read for last week
我上周让大家读的 You didn't read it last week
如果你上周没读 Read it this week, right?
这周读一读 好吧 There's lots of materials in there
这里有很多材料 That's a very rich article
是一篇内容丰富的文章 Which caresses both the Jewish
同时包括了犹太人 and the Christian side of these questions
和基督教方面对此问题的态度 So they are eating a fancy meal
所以他们在吃大餐 They are having dipping
他们在蘸调料 presumably is the paschal meal
大概是逾越节晚餐 the paschal lamb
逾越节羔羊 I wish I don't have to say presumably
我真希望我不需要说大概 I wish Matthew just came out and said it
我希望马太福音明明白白说出来 But alright
但是好吧 What can I do?
我能有什么办法 Staffs tell me I have to make a living, right?
我就靠着这些东西生活呢 对吧 Presumably is the paschal lamb
大概这就是逾越节羔羊 Then we have bread and blessing
然后是吃面包和祝福 And we have here the key passages
这是主要的段落 So while they are eating
他们吃的时候 Jesus took bread
耶稣拿起饼来 Now it's a paschal meal, class
这是逾越节晚餐 同学们 What kind of bread is it?
所以是什么面包 It's got to be unleavened bread
肯定是无酵饼 But that's okay
但是没关系 unleavened bread is a kind of bread
无酵饼也是一种面包 That's okay
没关系 So Jesus took bread
耶稣拿起饼来 pronouncing a blessing
祝福 The Greek here is eulogia
希腊语这里是颂德文 Pronouncing a blessing, broke it, and
祝福 擘开 gave it to disciples saying
递给门徒说 Take and eat, this is my body
你们拿着吃 这是我的身体 Then he took the cup
又拿起杯来 and gave thanks offered up to them
致谢了 递给他们 saying, drink from it, all of you
说 你们都喝这个 This is my blood of the covenant
因为这是我立约的血 a lot of different
这一段有很多 variant manuscript of readings here
不同的手稿 Which I don't have to worry about
我们不用管这个 He just poured out for many
为多人流出来 for the forgiveness of sins
使罪得赦 Professor Cohen have notices
Cohen教授发现了 This sequence does not quite agree
这里的顺序和密西拿 with our Mishnah
不太一样 If you remember in our Mishnah
如果你还记得密西拿 how does a meal begin
晚餐是如何开始的 You begin with a cup of wine
以一杯酒开始 then you go to the bread
然后才是无酵饼 Here we seem to skip that initial opening
这里看来是跳过了开始的步骤 we simply have bread followed by wine
只是无酵饼然后是酒 Contrast that with the Gospel of Luke
对比下路加福音 Gospel of Luke, I don't have time
路加福音 我没有时间 to review all these passages
复述整个段落 But you can read here
你们可以自己看看 in your notes as well, the passages
关于这段的注释 The Gospel of Luke
路加福音 you have an opening cup of wine
是以一杯酒开始的 then you have bread
然后是面包 then you have wine, again
然后是又一杯酒 So here the sequence seems to be that
这里的顺序看起来 to agree with what the Mishnah has
和密西拿是一样的 There's an opening cup of wine
先是以一杯酒开始 then you do some eating, then you have bread
然后吃些东西 吃面包 then you have the cup of wine
然后再喝一杯酒 which is a cup of institution
是一种喝酒的习俗 Then presumably is meant to be understood
大概可以理解成 to be the third cup in the rabbinic Seder
拉比逾越节家宴里面的第三杯酒 Then it's a cup that is part of the meal
这杯酒是晚餐的一部分 Okay, these interest you? Probably not
你们对此感兴趣吗 可能不感兴趣 Okay, so and we have a conflict
在马太和路加福音之间 between Matthew and Luke
有一个冲突 So Luke has wine, bread, wine
路加福音是酒 面包 酒 Matthew simply has bread, wine
马太福音只是简单的面包 酒 You could jiggle these things to
如果你愿意 可以找一种 make them agree, if you want
能让二者相符的说法 Or you can simply leave them unresolved
或者只是放那不管 In any case, I don't see a Seder here
无论如何 我没有看到逾越节家宴 I'm looking for
我在寻找 I'm looking for a ritualized scriptural exegesis
我在寻找仪式化的脚本化的释经 No one's quoting Scripture
没人引用圣经 No one's telling stories
没人讲故事 There's no ritualized questions and answers
没有仪式化的问题和答案 no ritualized instruction
仪式化的教导 Nor do I see any of the symbolic foods
我也没有看到象征性的食物 even the bitter herbs
连苦草都没有 which are mentioned in Scripture
在圣经里面是提到过的 are not mentioned here
在这里也没有提 So I put it together
所以总结一下 I'm going to say I see a paschal meal, yes
我会说我看到了逾越节晚餐 I don't see a Seder
但是没看到逾越节家宴 Yes
请说 Why do you expect to see a Seder, though
为什么你想要看到逾越节家宴呢 This is a semi-ritual
这也就只有一半的仪式 Excellent, why ready
非常好 为什么 Already exactly, I've already ruined the point
其实上我已经毁掉了这个问题 by arguing that the Passover Seder
因为我之前讨论过逾越节家宴 is a post-70 innovation, right
是公元70年之后出现的 However, there are some scholars out there
但是有一些学者 Benighted, politically incorrect
愚昧的 不合时宜的 who don't see things correctly
没有搞对情况 who actually think that the Seder
他们其实认为逾越节家宴 goes back to pre-70 times
是在公元70年之前出现的 who argue that the rabbinic Seder
他们争论说拉比逾越节家宴 is a holdover of what Jews have been doing
是犹太人还在做的事情的延续 even when the Passover lamb
就算是逾越节羔羊 was still being sacrificed
还存在的时候 So the Seder did not emerge as a replacement
所以逾越节家宴没有成为替代品 It was supplement to
而是一种补充 the original one was still
对原来的 even one which actually was taking place
依然还存在的仪式的补充 So if you believe that
如果你相信这一点 then you might want to say
你可能会说 the Last Supper of Jesus
耶稣的最后的晚餐 was not just a pascal meal
不止是逾越节晚餐 It was also a Seder
也是逾越节家宴 Okay, this is discussed by Bahr in his article
Bahr在他的文章里面也有讨论 Okay, so if you believe that's post-70
如果你相信这是公元70年后出现的 then we are not surprised to see that
那就不会奇怪看到 the paschal meal of Jesus is not a Seder
耶稣的逾越节晚餐不是逾越节家宴了 If you think the Seder predates 70
如果你认为逾越节家宴是早于公元70年的 then you might expect to see a Seder
那你可能就会期待看到逾越节家宴 Right?
对吧 Okay, other questions?
还有其他问题吗 Thank you, a good opportunity to clarify that
谢谢你 给了我一个很好的机会澄清这一点 Other questions?
其他问题 No
没有 Okay, let's look at the Gospel of John
好的 咱们来看看约翰福音 In contrast is the Gospel of John
与之相反的是约翰福音 The Gospel of John
约翰福音 here are the passages
这几个段落 Gospel of John has the crucifixion
在约翰福音里面耶稣在 on the 14th day of Nisan
尼散月第14天被钉上十字架 There's no Last Supper in the Gospel of John
在约翰福音里面没有最后的晚餐 Here but note John 6
注意看约翰福音第6章 Do you remember I asked you
还记得几周前我让你们 to read John 6 weeks ago?
读约翰福音第6章吗 Do you remember?
还记得吗 In connection with
和什么相关的 the manna
吗哪 See how this course hangs together?
发现这些课程是怎么整合到一起了吧 See how these pieces, right
这些不同的片段 You think that it happens by accident
你以为那些都是巧合 No, it's, anyway
不 不是 总之 Anyway, so John 6
约翰福音第6章 So Jesus is the bread of life
耶稣是生命的粮食 so you ever read that passage, John 6
如果你们读过约翰福音第6章 Seems that many scholars have noticed this
似乎很多学者都发现了 And we have, on the one hand
一方面 the absence of the Last Supper narrative
没有提到最后的晚餐 But we have John 6
但是约翰福音第6章 which seems to refer to
似乎提到了 the notion of eating the bread of life
吃生命的粮食的概念 which is Christ
也就是基督 and drinking my blood
喝我的血 which sounds like it's a reference to
听起来像是在指 some kind of Eucharist rituals
某种圣餐仪式 or some Last Supper story
或者最后的晚餐的故事 So we have a little problem
所以在约翰福音第6章 in the Gospel of John
我们有个小问题 But okay, that's not my problem at the moment
但是没关系 这不是我要讨论的问题 Something observing
可以看到 you see the different voices
各种不同的说法 The main narrative of the Gospel of John
约翰福音的主要叙事里面 has no Last Supper narrative
没有最后的晚餐 Namely, it does not have a paschal meal
也就是说没有耶稣和他门徒的 of Jesus and his disciples
逾越节晚餐 Why not?
为什么没有 Answer, Jesus is the paschal lamb
答案是 耶稣就是逾越节羔羊 Jesus is the paschal lamb
耶稣就是逾越节羔羊 This is seen already in John 1
这在约翰福音第1章就出现了 Behold, O Lamb of God, right?
看啊 神的羔羊 对吧 How would you sing in Handel's Messiah?
在汉德尔弥赛亚里面怎么唱的 In the choir?
在唱诗班 Behold, the Lamb of God, right
看啊 神的羔羊 So one of the dramatic moments
汉德尔弥赛亚里面的一个 in Handel's Messiah
戏剧性的时刻 So that's already in John 1
在约翰福音第1章就出现了 Long before the actual narrative
远远早于叙事里面 reaches the point of the crucifixion
提到被钉上十字架 He is the lamb of God
耶稣就是神的羔羊 What does that mean?
这是什么意思 He's slaughtered
他被屠杀了 That's what happens to the lambs
就是羔羊的遭遇 They get slaughtered
被屠杀了 Now I agree this doesn't have to be
我同意不一定非要是 a paschal lamb specifically
逾越节羔羊 It could just be a lamb in generically
可以只是普通的羔羊 as a sacrificial lamb
作为牺牲品 We still use that phrase in English
我们还会在英语里面用这个短语 sacrificial lamb in general
常说的牺牲品 But certainly lamb, paschal lamb
但是很明显羔羊 逾越节羔羊 There's, you slide, what, easily
可以很容易从一个 from the one to the other
联想到另外一个 So
所以 John looks at Jesus as the lamb
约翰福音认为耶稣就是羔羊 the pascal lamb
逾越节羔羊 Therefore
因此 Or if I understand this correctly
如果我的理解正确 When Christ says, this is my body
当基督说 这是我的身体 This is my blood
这是我的血 John understood that to mean
约翰福音理解成 This is my body, this is my blood
这是我的身体 这是我的血 I am, I, Jesus, am the paschal lamb
我是 我 耶稣 就是逾越节羔羊 By eating of the Passover
逾越节所吃的羔羊 you are eating me
就是在吃我 What, here I am
是在吃我 This is, at least, how I
这至少是我 Shaye Cohen would explain it
Shaye Cohen的解释 How we deal with the difference
我们这样处理约翰福音和 in John and the synotics?
对观福音书的不同 Surely
肯定地 you know what surely means, yes
你们知道肯定是什么意思 对吧 you have been through this a few times
你们已经见过几次了 Surely, it's easier to understand
肯定地 很容易理解 how somebody would take the chronology
为什么有人会修改 of synoptic Gospels and change it
对观福音书的时间表 to get me to the chronology of
和约翰福音的时间表 the Gospel of John
对应起来 because we firmly have this theological notion
因为我们坚定地持有这个神学观点 fixed in our head
想法根深蒂固 that Jesus is the paschal lamb
耶稣就是逾越节羔羊 And consequently did not
结果就是耶稣 have a paschal meal with his disciples
没有和他的门徒吃逾越节晚餐 because he is the paschal meal
因为他就是逾越节晚餐 I understand that change
我能理解这种变化 that develop into it very directly
发展过程非常直接 Whereas the opposite is
而反过来说 much harder to explain
就很难解释了 Therefore, I, many other scholars argue
因此 我和其他很多学者争论 that a primary chronology is
主要的时间表 the one in the synoptics
是对观福音书中的那个 with this apparently ancient story
很明显是关于最后晚餐的 about the Last Supper
古老的故事 And John is a theological riff on that
约翰福音是神学上的即兴发挥 Now scholars being scholars
学者有学者的看法 not everybody agrees on this point
并不是所有人都同意这一点 And there's a constant
对这个问题 discussion about this point
也一直有争论 But it's how things appear to me
但是我是这样认为的 You?
你们呢 On this matter, each person decides
在这个问题上 每个人都可以 as he sees fit as Herodotus writes
有自己的观点 就像希罗多德说的 more than one occasion, right?
不只有一种解释 对吧 That's how I understand
这就是我认为 how to make sense out of these
能够做出的 conflicting traditions
对冲突的解释 You don't like that explanation?
你不喜欢这种解释 Fine
没关系 Then I'll ask you
那么我问问你 How do you explain it?
你怎么解释呢 Okay, now I get to the big point
接下来是重点 Christ, the paschal lamb
基督 逾越节羔羊 is everywhere in later Christian theology
在晚期基督教神学的礼拜仪式和艺术中 liturgy and art
随处可见 What later Christianity does is to combine
晚期基督教的做法是把 the story of the Last Supper
最后的晚餐的故事 Matthew, Mark and Luke
马太 马克 路加福音所言 with the theology of the Gospel of John
和约翰福音中的神学合并了 We have a Last Supper
我们有最后的晚餐 We have Jesus institute
有耶稣提出了 This is my blood, this is my body
这是我的身体 这是我的血 At the same time, we also believe that
同时我们也相信 Jesus is the paschal lamb
耶稣就是复活节羔羊 And if you object
如果你反对 but that's not right
这肯定不对 Cos you are combining two
因为你把两个 discordant chronologies
不一致的时间表合并了 You are combing two different conceptions
你把两个不同的概念合并了 Okay
好吧 So sue me, right?
那你告我吧 So I'd like to say
我会说 theologians have to be consistent
神学者必须保持观点一致 But religious people
但是信徒们 don't have to be consistent
不需要观点一致 The religious mind is capable of
信徒们可以接受 all kinds of interesting
各种各样的 exegetical scriptural tricks
释经的技巧 combining things out of all interesting ways
以一种有趣的方式合并起来 Theologians demand absolute consistency
神学者需要自己的观点绝对一致 Who is a theologian, who cares?
谁是神学者 谁在乎 Talking about a living religion
说到现实中的信徒 which sees truth in both of these?
在两个观点中都看到了真理 On the one hand, the Last Supper
一方面是 最后的晚餐 The ritual of Eucharist
圣餐仪式 which we will turn in a few moments
我们会回过头来讲 as well as the theological idea
同样还有神学观点认为 that Christ is the lamb
基督是羔羊 So just to show you a brief words
给大家简短地讲一下 that here it is
找到了 So here is a picture of
这是一张照片 These are travel photos of
这是我去罗马旅行 my trip to Rome, right
拍的照片 This is from Santa Maria
这张来自罗马 in Trastevere in Rome
台伯河岸区的圣玛利亚 So there are 12 century mosaics
这些是12世纪的马赛克镶嵌画 that you see here
可以看到 on these arches within arch
一层一层的拱门 So here is the dome
这里是圆顶 Here is arch No.1
第一座拱门 Here is arch No.2
第二座拱门 I'm gonna focusing on this in one second
我会先主要说说这个 And I'm gonna focusing on another image
然后再说隐藏在这里的 that's hiding here
另外一张照片 behind this rather Baroque
在这些罕见的巴洛克风格后面 completely inappropriate buon tacchino
有一只非常不合适的火鸡 that ruins the entirely the 12 century feeling
完全破坏了12世纪的感觉 But that's just Shaye Cohen art critic, right?
但是这只是Shaye Cohen艺术批评 对吧 This is a Baroque masterpiece in itself
这是巴洛克风格的杰作 But hiding behind is this
但是隐藏在背后的这个 You see these lambs here?
看到这些羔羊了吗 I think you need to kill the lights, sir
我想可能需要把灯关掉 Need to kill the lights, ah, that's better
需要关灯 啊 好多了 Alright, I'm lost where I am now
我不知道在哪里了 There we are
找到了 Okay, see these lambs?
看到羔羊了吗 Okay, try don't waste too much time on this
我不想在这上面花太多时间 Just get to where we are
直接找到要说的 So lamb No.1
这是第一只羔羊 That's Christ
这是基督 Lamb on the altar, right?
祭坛上的羔羊 对吧 This I think is a reference
我想这里是在引用 to the story in Revelation
启示录的故事 about Christ, the lamb and his scroll
关于基督 羔羊和他的书卷 Or something in Revelation 5 or 6
或者是启示录第5第6章的内容 I think it's that
我认为是这个 But here, this is Christ
这里 这个是基督 Similarly, there
类似地 这里 That's the one hidden by the buon tacchino
基督藏在火鸡的后面 That's the row of lambs
那是一排羊羔 This is Christ
这是基督 Christ is the lamb
基督就是羔羊 Then that I'm arguing
我要说的是 this is not atypical, this is normal
这不是特例 这很常见 This is common in Christian art chorography
在基督教的艺术图志中很常见 Common in Christian liturgy
在基督教的礼拜仪式中很常见 and common in
在基督教的 just Christian theology in general
神学里面很常见 Okay, so just in Dialogue with Trypho
在与特来弗对话录里面 I'll come back on this passage on Wednesday
我会在周三讲到这个 argues the paschal lamb is the type of Christ
认为逾越节羊羔是基督的类型 Type means
类型的意思是 Typology?
类型学 Right, we've discussed it before, right
没错 我们之前讲过的 It sets the paradigm
提供了范例 Namely, when Israelites are told
也就是说当以色列人被告知 to slaughter the paschal lamb
要屠宰逾越节羔羊 That law is fulfilled, right?
这条律法被执行了 对吧 when of course Israelites slaughter Christ
当然以色列人就杀害了基督 Passover for us Christians
我们基督徒的逾越节 And here is this wonderful excerpt from
这是来自公祷书的 the Book of Common Prayer
一个优美的段落 from the Easter Service
来自复活节崇拜 Just a brief step aside
简单说一下 The Book of Common Prayer
公祷书是 is the book used by the Episcopalians
圣公会教用的书 in this country
在美国 Episcopalians belong to
圣公会教属于 the Anglican Communion
圣公宗 so the part of the Anglican Church
是圣公宗教会的一部分 which ritually speaking is High Church
从仪式上说是高教会派 Namely, it's full of rituals
也就是说有各种仪式 which are celebrated in a ritualistic
以仪式的方式庆祝 I attempted to say a theatrical way
我倾向于说是戏剧性的方式 as opposed to Low Church
与之相反的是低教会派 which does not sets much store
没有那么多 with the ritual life
和仪式相关的活动 Okay, that's different discussion
好了 这是另外一个话题了 Anyway, these Episcopalians
总之 这些圣公会教 I don't know the history of this prayer
我不知道这篇祷文的历史 And if you do
如果你知道 I don't have now enough time
我没有时间去 to do my homework
专门研究 to get to see how old is this prayer is
这篇祷文有多老 or where it comes from
从何处而来 But it's part of the Anglican service
但是这是圣公宗崇拜中 for the Easter vigil
复活节守夜礼的一部分 For many Christian communities
很多基督教团体 One, there is a vigil
有一个守夜礼 Saturday night of the Easter
复活节星期六的晚上 Right, so that Sunday morning comes
所以当星期日早晨来临 you are awake
你还醒着 and liturgically active at the key moment
然后以礼拜仪式执行复活 of the resurrection
这一关键时刻 Here is the Passover, sorry
这是逾越节 抱歉 the Easter service from
是来自公祷书 the Book of Common Prayer
的复活节崇拜 It is truly right and good
这是永恒而 always and everywhere
无处不在的真理 with our whole heart, mind and voice
我以全心 全意 全身心 to praise you
去赞美你 the invisible, almighty, and eternal God
那无形的全能的永恒的上帝 and your only begotten son
以及你唯一受生之子 Okay, you've seen this language before?
看过这种说法吧 God, son, only begotten
上帝 儿子 受生的 That's the language of
这是尼西亚信经 the Nicene Creed, right?
所用的说法 对吧 That we saw that
我们在课程 at the beginning of the course
最开始看到过的 Jesus Christ, our Lord
耶稣基督 我们的主 Remember, God is God
记得吧 上帝是上帝 Jesus is Lord, right?
耶稣是主 对吧 The common language
通用的说法 For he is the true paschal lamb
因为他就是真正的逾越节羔羊 where does that come from?
这句从哪里来的 That's Gospel of John
约翰福音 For he is the true paschal lamb
因为他就是真正的逾越节羔羊 who at the feast of the Passover
在逾越节的宴席上 paid for us the debt of Adam's sin
为我们偿还原罪 And by his blood
以他的血 delivered your faithful people
拯救了你忠诚的信徒 So that the sacrifice
所以祭品 the Jesus' sacrifice is an atoning sacrifice
耶稣的祭品是赎罪用的 taking care of the sin
来偿还亚当 brought by Adam
犯下的罪孽 and he delivered your faithful people
他拯救了忠诚的信徒 Who's that, your faithful people?
这是谁 忠诚的信徒 Us, us Christians
我们 我们基督徒 Or to be specific, we Episcopalians
或者具体点说 我们圣公会教徒 This is the night
这就是那晚 when you brought our fathers
你带着我们的祖先 the children of Israel
以色列的孩子 out of the bondage in Egypt
摆脱了埃及的奴役 and led them through
代领他们 the Red Sea on dry land
踩着干地通过了红海 So the Israelites who left Egypt
那些离开埃及的以色列人 Who were they?
他们是谁 They are our fathers
是我们的祖先 Our, who's our?
我们 我们是谁 We Episcopalians, we Christians, right?
我们圣公会教徒 我们基督徒 对吧 Our fathers, the children of Israel
我们的祖先 以色列的孩子 out of bondage in Egypt
摆脱了埃及的奴役 and led them through
代领他们 the Red Sea on dry land
踩着干地通过了红海 This is the night
就是那个晚上 This is the night of Passover
就是逾越节那个晚上 This is the night
就是那个晚上 when all who believe in Christ
我们都开始信奉基督 are delivered from the gloom of sin
被从阴郁的罪中拯救 and are restored to grace
重获优雅而 and holiness of life
圣洁的生命 This is the night
就是那个晚上 when Christ broke the bonds
基督打破了 of death and hell
死与地狱的禁锢 the reference to an old Christian story
这是引用的一个古老的基督教故事 What's Christ doing during the time
基督在星期五被埋葬 between his burial on Friday
和星期日早晨复活 and the resurrection on Sunday morning
之间做的事情 What's he doing?
他在做什么 Does he just lie there in his tomb?
他只是躺在坟墓里面吗 No
不是 That can't be
不可能是 That makes no sense
没有道理 He doesn't lie around in his tomb
他没有躺在坟墓里面 No, he's busy doing something of course
不 他当然在忙着做着什么 He answered his harrowing Hell
他征服了地狱 Right, that he go down to hell
他到地狱里面 to rescue from hell those
把那些值得拯救的人 who deserves to be rescued
从地狱里面拯救了出来 So that's a reference to that
就是引用的这个故事 Broke the bonds of death and hell
打破了死与地狱的禁锢 and rose victorious from the grave
在坟墓中获得胜利 Quite a remarkable prayer, no?
非常出色的祷文 不是吗 Okay, no
好吧 不是 I think it's a remarkable prayer
我认为是很出色的祷文 Quite a remarkable prayer, yes?
非常出色的祷文 是吧 Yes
是的 Thank you, right
谢谢 Yes
是的 We have in this prayer is identification
这篇祷文证明了 of the entire Biblical story of Exodus
圣经中出埃及的整个故事 with us Christians
是关于我们基督徒的 The highlight of which is
重中之重是 Christ is the paschal lamb
基督是逾越节羔羊 And therefore Easter for us Christians
因此复活节对我们基督教来说 is our Passover, unquote
就是我们的逾越节 引用结束 It's our Passover
是我们的逾越节 Cos this is the night that you led our fathers
因为这天晚上你让我们的祖先 out of bondage in Egypt
摆脱了埃及人的奴役 Well, I'm gonna try that
好了 我想试试 socrative teacher thing
socrative这个网站 You are ready to go try it?
你们准备好了吗 Something quick
快速问答 This is curious to see
我很好奇 This is, I just want your opinion
我只是想要大家的意见 Okay, go to m.socrative.com
登陆m.socrative.com Room 5396, you are ready to try it?
房间5396 准备好了吗 Yes
是的 Okay, so I'm gonna ask you
好了 我准备问你们 some true or false question
一些判断正误的问题 You see the true and false there?
看到正确和错误的选项了吗 Okay, true
好了 正确 The Jews are correct when they say
犹太人说上帝 that God took their ancestors out of Egypt
把他们的祖先带出了埃及 正确吗 Do you agree?
你们同意吗 I can't get the page
我打不开网页 Can't get the page
打不开网页 m.socrative.com
能再重复下问题吗 What was the question again?
重复下问题 Question again is
犹太人是否正确 The Jews are correct
或者可以强调说 or perhaps I might rephrase
犹太人是否有权利相信 the Jews have their right to believe
上帝带着他们的祖先逃离了埃及 that God took their ancestors out of Egypt
你同意吗 Do you agree?
另外一个选择是什么 What's your alternative?
我解释下这个问题 I'll explain that question
另外一个选择是 You alternative be
上帝把以色列人从埃及带出去 is that God took Israelites out of Egypt
和犹太人没有任何关系 has nothing to do with Jews?
如果选择A 正确 So if it's A, true
意味着你相信以色列的人故事 it mean you believe in Israelite story
以色列故事是一个犹太人故事 that the Israelite story is a Jewish story
20个人回答了是的 So 20 yeses on how it was
就这些吗 22个人 That's all, 22?
房间里面有37位同学 37 people in the room signed up
还有人想表达意见吗 Anybody else want to stick in it?
我没有问你们的意见 I'm not asking your opinion
我没有问你们的观点 I'm not asking you for argument
我问的是你们相信吗 I'm asking you if you believe
这是Shaye Cohen教授的 This is a Shaye Cohen
欢乐时刻 having interesting moment
好了 24个 两个人选否定 Okay, 24 say, two falses
抱歉 两个人选否定 I'm sorry, two falses
所以两位同学回答不是 So two say no
有两位同学认为以色列人的故事 Two say that the Israelite story
从埃及逃离不是犹太人的故事 Exodus from Egypt is not a Jewish story
我继续问问题了 好吧 Now I'm gonna ask, okay?
大家明白我的意思了 对吧 You can see where I'm going with this, yes?
好了 下一个问题 Alright? Let's go on next question
基督徒有权利说 Christians have a right to say
上帝代领他们的祖先逃离埃及 that God took their ancestors out of Egypt
也就是说 出埃及的故事是个基督教的故事 Namely, the Exodus story is a Christian story
正确吗 True?
定义下基督徒 Define Christians?
定义下基督徒 这个问题就讨厌了 Define Christians, that will be obnoxious
如果你们坚持那就是圣公会 Okay, Episcopalians if you insist
但是不是 我说的是普遍意义上的基督徒 But no, I just mean generically Christians
非常有趣 Very interesting
只是解释下问题 Just to explain the question
感谢大家的回应 Thank you for your responses
实际上 they are actually
还有人回应吗 Anybody else responding?
我问的当然是 What I'm asking of course is
神话的力量 the power of myth
代表的力量 or the power of representation
记忆的力量 the power of memory
犹太人相信 Right, the Jews believe
他们是圣经提到的种族 that they are the literal ethnic
生物学上的 遗传学上的 biological, genetic descendants of
一千年前在埃及为奴的 those Israelites who were enslaved in Egypt
以色列人的后代 a millennium ago
他们的祖先被上帝救赎 and who were set free by God
展示了上帝的神力 and display of mighty power
事实上这不太可能是真的 The fact that this is not likely to be true
事实上今天 and the fact that people
现存的犹太人 walking around today who are Jews
在遗传学上有 genetically have a whole series
一系列的遗传基因 of genetic descend groups within them
因为改变信仰 because of the conversion
很多非犹太人入了犹太教 of non-Jews to Judaism
因为战俘 俘虏 because of POWs, captives
因为在过去的几千年里 because of those all kinds of incidents
发生的各种意外事件 that happened over the thousands of years
把从埃及逃出来的人 to separate the Exodus from Egypt
和今天的犹太人区分开来了 and living contemporary Jews
这些都是无关紧要的 It's all beside the point
因为记忆的力量 Cos the power of memory
因为神话的力量 or the power of myth making
我们犹太人相信自己 is that we Jews imagine ourselves
是从埃及逃出的以色列人的 to be the linear descendants of
直系后裔 those Israelites from Egypt
基督徒当然 Christians of course
不会想象他们自己是 do not imagine themselves to be
直系后裔 the linear descendants
他们想象自己是 They imagine themselves as
精神上的后裔 spiritually descendants
这就是为什么在 That's why the language in
圣公会的说法如此惊人 that Episcopalians apparently so striking
因为圣公会 cos the language
他们说 你们一边儿去吧 It says, flood out
这是我们的祖先 that these are our fathers
我们的意思是基督徒 Our meaning us Christians
这是我们的逾越节 This is our Passover
所以我倾向于说 And I attempted to say
相信基督教逾越节的 There is no less a Christian Passover
应该不比犹太人逾越节的少 than there is a Jewish Passover
看起来你们大多数人都同意 So most of you seem to agree
我想这是个有趣的结论 Which I think is just an interesting observation
我以为会有更多人 I would predict that there would be
不同意呢 more disagreements, okay
有问题吧 请说 Questions, you?
有没有这种可能 美国新教圣公会教徒 Yes, is it possible that the Episcopalians
或者公祷书里面的英国圣公会教徒 or the Anglicans in the Book of Common Prayer
是在那些以色列失落的部落 are referring to these a lost tribe in Israel
去了英国 moving to Britain?
有趣的问题 Interesting question
是否有可能指的是 Is it possible they are referring to
失落的以色列部落的故事 what the stories of the lost tribe of Israel?
我想有可能 I guess it's possible
但是肯定不是我们讨论的 But surely it's not what we're doing here, right
几个世纪以来 There are some British for centuries
确实有英国人想象英国人 who do imagine that the British people
英国岛屿 英国岛屿上的居民 the British Islets, inhabitants of the British Islets
是失落的部落的后裔 are the descendants of the lost tribes
但是那些是所谓的英国以色列人 But those are so-called British Israelites
这是几个世纪以前了 But they are centuries ago
肯定值得尊敬的英国圣公会教徒 Then surely we respectable Anglicans
没有部落 那样形式的部落 don't have tribes, the likes of those
但这是很有趣的观点 But interesting one
我不确定有没有这个可能 I'm not sure there's possibility
我不认为这不可能是真的 I don't think that's very unlikely true
因为英国圣公会教堂 Because the Anglican Church
并不一定是在英国 doesn't really identify will be English
会这样只是因为 That only happen because of, like
他们不喜欢受罗马权利控制 Their debates don't like the power in Rome
喜欢过去的那种日子 but like the good old days of ever
所以不是 And it's not
是吗 Oh really?
我以为追溯到公元108年 I thought going back to 108
英国圣公会就是这个样子的 That was what the Anglicans were all about
你们知道 教皇 You know, the pope
不干涉我们的教堂 just gave his hands off our church
教皇在意大利 You know, the pope in Italy
让他们为所欲为 Let him do whatever he wants
我们在英格兰 We are in England
我们以自己的方式行事 we run things the way we want to
这样是因为他们是英国人 It's not, because they are English
因为他们是英国人 我明白了 Cos they are English, oh I see
只是 It's just
很有趣 Interesting
还有其他问题 总结吗 Okay, other questions, observations on that?
David 请说 Yes, David
我的意思是在19世纪和20世纪早期 I mean, in the 19th and early 20th century
威尔士的非英国国教徒 Welsh non-Conformist
这不是一回事儿 So this isn't the same thing
是的 Yes
但是在英国群岛 But just to say the in the British Islets
确实有像威尔士非英国国教徒这样的人 you do have people like the Welsh non-Conformists
他们非常坚信 who are very committed to the notion
他们威尔士人就是 and they are actually the Welsh
其中一个失落的部落 one of these lost tribes
其中一个失落的部落 One of these lost tribes
所以这种想法一直都在 So that idea is floating
有这种氛围 It's in the atmosphere
但是我觉得还不用说这么远 But I don't think we even have to go that far
我觉得可以说 I think you can just say that
基督教教义教导教堂和你们 Christianity teaches that the churches and you
没有以色列人 No Israel
没错 我就是想说这个 Precisely, that's where I am going with this
我觉得美国圣公会教徒考虑的话 As far as Episcopalians goes that, I think
世界上大多数美国圣公会教徒都是非洲人 most world's Episcopalians are African, so
是的 这是真的 Yes, that is true
是的 我不知道 Yes, I've no idea how
这些在非洲教会是什么情况 this plays out in African churches
我不知道 I don't know
好了 这些也是很深奥的内容 Okay, these again are deep waters
我们面对的是神话 记忆 We are dealing here with myth, memory
身份构建 主张 identity construction, affirmation
我们 我们是指我们现代人 How we, meaning we living people
如何看待 see ourselves vis-a-vis
我们自己和宗教经典 the sacred text that we have
以及我们如何理解 And how we understand
和宗教经典的关系 our relationship with them
这些都涉及到了 These, to say, goes to the heart of
一些身份构建的主要问题的核心部分 some key questions of identity construction
请说 Yes
你是Chris 对吧 You are Chris, right?
Brandon Brandon
Brandon 抱歉 Brandon 是的 Brandon, excuse me, Brandon, yes
这些祷文 With these prayer, that is here
是对观福音书和 So that is a combination of the synoptic
是的 Right
约翰福音观点的组合 view and John's view
是的 Yes
因为基督 好吧 Because Christ, okay
是的 我就是这样说的 Right, that's what I'm saying
你可以反对 So you could object
怎么样把这些自相矛盾的东西 How can you reconcile these things
调和一致 that are irreconcilable
但是我之前说过的 But as I mentioned before
这不是问题 There's no problem
好吧 Okay
这不是问题 No, it's not a problem
很好 谢谢 Good, thank you, right
好了 现在要开始讲第二条轨迹了 Okay, so I'm ready to go the trajectory No.2
我还有六分钟 没有问题 I have six minutes to do it, no problem
好吧 Okay?
这些是需要思考的 对吧 These are things to think about, alright?
我要说 You know, I would say
我不是说我 Shaye Cohen I'm not saying what I, Shaye Cohen
同意或者不同意 这不是重点 agree or disagree, that's not the point
我们都有自己的观点 We all have opinions on these matters
主要问题是 And the key question is
基督教如何看待自己 how Christianity sees itself
和旧约时间的关系 vis-a-vis the Old Testament
但是在本节课程中我们会说 But the arguments on this course
旧约是基督教的书 that the Old Testament is a Christian book
同样 希伯来圣经是犹太人的书 Same way, the Hebrew Bible is a Jewish book
是同一本书 It's the same book
又是不同的书 But it's different book
这取决于如何去读 It depends on how it's read
如何去解读 how it's interpreted
有什么样的功用 what function it serves
这就是我们课程要讲的东西 Right, that's what this whole course is about
这是个非常好的例子 This is an excellent example of this
好了 我准备开始讲 Okay, I'm ready to go back to
第二条轨迹了 the second trajectory
我们从第一条轨迹开始的 So we started with first trajectory
从耶稣的最后晚餐开始 began with Jesus and Last Supper
和他的使徒 他的门徒 with his apostles, and his disciples
直到死亡 复活 winds up then dead, resurrected
以及基督教的复活节 and the Christian festival of Easter
要注意到和逾越节的联系 is aware of this Passover connection
根据约翰福音中的神学 Right, through the theology of Gospel John
基督是我们的逾越节羔羊 Christ is our paschal lamb
第二条轨迹 Second trajectory
从最后的晚餐到圣餐 From Last Supper to the Eucharist
到圣餐仪式 Right, to ritual of the Eucharist
基督和他的使徒 Right, we have Jesus and his apostles
这是我的身体 这是我的血 This is my body, this is my blood
给了我们基督教 Right, that gives us the central
礼拜仪式的中心仪式 ritual of Christian liturgy
还有洗礼 That along Baptism
最早记载最后晚餐的是保罗 So the earliest account of Last Supper is Paul
还记得吧保罗的作品是在福音书之前 Remember Paul is writing before the Gospels
福音书是在公元70年代80年代 可能是90年代 Right, the Gospels are 70s, 80s, maybe 90s
保罗是在公元50年代写作 Right, Paul is writing in the 50s
我还要提醒下 So may I remind you also
保罗没有见过耶稣 Paul never met Jesus
再说一遍 保罗没有见过耶稣 Repeat, Paul never met Jesus
他只是从传言中 Right, he only know of Jesus
听说过耶稣 by what he is heard
然后他声称 And when he claims by
自己和上帝有直接联系 the direct revelation from God
这是哥林多前书里面 So this is a very important passage
一个重要的段落 in the 1 Corinthians
保罗写道 where Paul writes as follows
我当日传给你们的 For I received from the Lord
原是从主领受的 what I also passed on to you
保罗声称他 Right, Paul claims he has
在这个话题上有直接的口传 direct tradition on the subject
主耶稣 The Lord Jesus
被卖的那一夜 拿起饼来 on the night he was betrayed, took bread
祝谢了 and when he had given thanks
他在这里进行了祝谢 There's O Herystia again, giving thanks
就擘开 说 He broke it and said
这是我的身体 为你们舍的 This is my body, which is for you
你们应当如此行 为的是纪念我 Do this in the remembrance of me
这个关于纪念的场景在路加福音也有 This theme of memory is also found in Luke
马太 马克福音没有 路加福音有 not Matthew or Mark, but Luke
你们应当如此行 为的是纪念我 Do this in remembrance of me
饭后 也照样 In the same way, after supper
拿起来杯来 说 he took the cup, saying
这杯是用我的血所立的新约 This cup is the new covenant on my blood
你们每逢喝的时候 要如此行 Do this, whenever you drink it
为的是纪念我 in remembrance of me
你们每逢 等等等 For whenever you blablabla
是表明主的死 直等到他来 the Lord's death until he comes
再一次我们看到了 So again here we have
同样的组合 the same combination of
面包 肉 酒 祝谢 bread, meal, wine, giving thanks, again
和马太 路加福音并不是特别一致 Not quite ring with Matthew and Luke
但是现在这并不是我们需要关心的 But that's not my concern at the moment
有趣的一点 Interesting point
在他被卖的那一夜 On the night of his betrayal
保罗在这段里面 Paul does not mention Passover
没有提到逾越节 in this passage
保罗没有提到逾越节 Paul does not mention Pesah
逾越节祭品 the paschal sacrifice
只是简单地说在他被卖的那一夜 He simply said the night he was betrayed
最后的晚餐 the Last Supper
但是这里没有关于 But there is no clue here
这是逾越节晚餐的提示 that this is the paschal meal
保罗对这点很疑惑 Now Paul is confusing on this point
保罗知道耶稣 基督 Paul knows that Jesus, the Christ
是我们的祭品 is our pascha
去掉以前的酵母 Get rid of the old yeast
我们需要一批没有酵母的面包 that you may be a new batch without yeast
基督 我们的逾越节羔羊 Christ, our Passover lamb
成为了祭品 has been sacrificed
保罗在另外一个段落 So Paul, in another passage
知道基督就是我们的逾越节羔羊 knows Christ is our Passover lamb
但是在这里 与接下来这句相关联的 But here, with connection with
这是我的身体 这是我的血 This is my body, this is my blood
他没有说 He doesn't say it
所以我有点疑惑 So I'm a little confused
我怎么能把事情整合起来 How do I put things together
然后又能讲得通 to make sense out of this
保罗知道这个故事 So Paul knows the story
有历史记忆 has historical memory
基督是我们的逾越节羔羊 that Christ is our paschal lamb
约翰福音是这样提醒我们的 which reminds us of Gospel John
但是同时 But the same token
当保罗提到 when Paul talks about
身体和血的仪式的时候 the body-and-blood ritual
却完全没有提到逾越节 There's no Passover anywhere in sight
这就是我们的另外一条轨迹 And that's where we are going in this trajectory
这是我的身体 这是我的血的仪式 The ritual of this is my body, this is my blood
和逾越节的 has ultimately loses
任何关联最终都消失了 any and all connection with Passover
而自相矛盾的是 And paradoxically
最先引用的这一点的 the very first reference to it
保罗已经引用了没有逾越节的观点 Paul is already a reference without Passover
我会再讲几分钟 I'm gonna talk about this for one second
然后给你们看个幻灯片 then I can show you a slide
时间就到了 and our time is up
西方的教堂 Therefore western churches
在圣餐仪式中使用无酵饼 use unleavened bread for Communion
我找了几张不太好的照片 And here I get some niffy photos
这是在西方教堂 This is the bread used
使用的无酵饼 圣饼 the wafers used in western Christian though
我们看到的只是小块的扁平的饼 All we see is just small flat breads
有一个十字在上面 They have a nice cross on them
总是这个样子的 out of which they always do
但是在同一张照片里面 But actually that same photo
可以看到有各种不同的样式 are on all kinds of different albums
重点是圣饼很小 The point is that, it's a small wafter
可以看到完全是平的 And you'll see it is completely flat
结果就是 The result is that
领圣餐的传统仪式是 the traditional way to take Communion
神父把圣饼蘸到 is that the priest dips the wafer
一杯酒里面 into the cup of wine
然后整个都放到你的嘴里面 and puts the whole thing into your mouth
为什么整个都放到你的嘴里面 Why the whole thing into your mouth?
这是我的 That's my, right
所以想一下 So think about it one second
这是基督的身体和血 This is the body and blood of Christ
所以你不会想要 What you don't want is
掉屑 Crumbs
因为掉屑是个问题 对吧 Cos crumbs there are a problem, right
整个放到你的嘴里面 So you put the whole thing into your mouth
圣饼是很小的 The wafer is therefore small
可以看到 Now as you see
整个都放到嘴里面 The whole thing goes into the mouth
蘸一下酒 整个放到嘴里 dips the wine, right in
就不用担心掉屑或者咬坏了 You don't worry about crumbs or spoilage
总是 是没发酵的 是平的 Anyway, it's unleavened, it's flat
给大家再看一遍 I'll show you that again
完全是平的 It's completely flat
然而东方的基督徒 However, eastern Christians
正教用这个 Orthodox Christianity use this
可以看到不是平的 Which as you see, is not flat
是膨胀的 可以看到有空气孔 对吧 It's raised, you see here is air hole, right?
所以肯定是发酵的 It is very much leavened
西方的基督徒认为 So the argument of western Christians
我想 我们用平的饼 I think, is that we use flat bread
不是因为我们想要 Not because we are trying to
纪念无酵饼的传统 remember the tradition of matzah
我们用平的饼因为 We are using flat bread because
发酵是罪恶的象征 leaven is the symbol of sin
发酵代表着腐败 leaven represents corruption
有什么东西出来了 Right, there's something out
会腐败 it will spoil
就是那些冒泡 发酵的过程 i.e., the bubbling, fermenting action
从细菌和酵母里面来的 from bacteria and yeast there and so on
我们不想要这样 So we don't want that
发酵代表着罪恶 yeast represent sin
我们要用平的饼 We want flat bread
东方的基督徒用发酵的面包 Eastern Christians use leavened bread
可能是因为他们想要确保 Perhaps because they want to make sure
不会被当成是犹太人的仪式 we don't think this is a Jewish ceremony
他们想要避免 they are trying to avoid
使用没发酵的面包 using unleavened bread
因为犹太人使用没发酵的面包 cos the Jews use unleavened bread
还有一种解释是 The alternative is that
我们用发酵的面包 we want to use leavened bread
以为我们想让面包 because we want bread that
膨胀起来 rises
因为毕竟 Cos after all this is
这是复活的故事的含义 what the resurrection story is about
所以这块面包 So this is the bread
可以看到上面有十字 you could see there's cross on it
用的这种面包 This is the bread used
被切成小块 which broke up a little crumbs
被用作祭品 and then sacrifice
就成为了东方基督教的 and this becomes the Host
圣饼 for Eastern Christians
最后一点 正教把这些 Last point, the orthodox Christians
小块叫做羔羊 call this bit the lamb
这就是羔羊 This is the lamb
好了同学们 Alright everybody
咱们周三继续讲 to be continued on Wednesday
谢谢大家 Thank you
欢迎给我们发邮件到 Rhine & trismile Production