在上节课结束的时候 At the end of last class,
我提出一个问题 I began to raise the question as to whether or not
那就是我们是否应该区分两个 we should distinguish two questions
我们经常混为一谈的问题 that we would normally be inclined to run together.
我们一直在问自己 We've been asking ourselves,
到底需要什么我才能活下来 what does it take for me to survive,
才能继续存在 for me to continue to exist?
但我觉得 But it's possible, i suggested,
我们其实不应关注这个问题 that we really shouldn't focus on the question,
即如何才能活下来 what does it take for me to survive?
而应该关注 But rather,
"我在乎的是什么 "what is it that I care about?
什么活下来才有意义" What is it that matters in survival?"
因为从逻辑上讲 Because it's possible, logically speaking,
有可能我活了下来 that there could be cases in which I survive,
却失去了我活着时通常拥有的东西 but I don't have what I normally have when I survive,
失去了对我重要的东西 and so I don't have what matters.
失去了当初想存活时我想要的那些东西 I don't have what I wanted, when I wanted to survive.
一般情况下 我活下来 It could be that in the typical cases of survival
能够继续拥有这些东西 I've got that extra thing.
但我们可以设想另一些情况 我活下来 But we can think of cases in which I would survive,
却失去了这些东西 but I don't have that extra thing,
我失去了所有对我重要的东西 and so I wouldn't have everything that matters to me.
在这种情况下 So as it were,
我们可以说 we might say,
仅仅是活下来或是肉体活下来 it might be that mere survival or bare bones survival
对我毫无意义 doesn't really give me what matters.
除了活下来 我还想要更多 What I want is survival plus something else.
为阐明这个问题 我要请大家思考一下 And I tried to motivate this question by having you think about
如果我们假设 perhaps the possibility,
灵魂理论是人格同一性的正确理论 if the soul view was the truth about personal identity,
那我们来设想一个 but imagine a case of
彻底的不可逆的失忆案例 complete irreversible amnesia,
尽管灵魂仍然是你的灵魂 while nonetheless, it's still your soul continuing.
但这个灵魂 But the soul is going to then,
已经被完全删除干净 having been scrubbed clean,
获得全新人格 get a brand new personality.
有了一系列新记忆 新愿望和新信仰 A new set of memories, new set of desires, new set of beliefs.
无法恢复你以前的人格 No chance of recalling your previous,
或者说是你现在的人格 current, personality.
当我思考这个案例的时候 And when I think about that case,
我想说 I find myself wanting to say,
"好吧 我能活下来 但那又怎样呢 "All right, I'll survive, but so what?
我不在乎 I don't care.
因为这种情况下 It doesn't matter
活下来的人是不是我已经不重要了 that it's me, in that case.
因为我不仅希望活下来的人是我 Because I don't just want it to be me,
我还希望活下来的人是带有我人格的我" I want to have there be somebody that's me with my personality."
同样 假设我们认为肉体理论是正确的 Similarly, suppose we thought that the body view was the correct view
我们可以再设想一个完全失忆的例子 and we imagine, again, some sort of case of complete amnesia.
我们有了新的人格 And so then we get a new personality
你会说"瞧 这就是你 and you say, "Oh look, that's going to be you,
你的肉体 你的大脑 你还活着" your body, your brain. You're still around."
而我会说"也许这是真的 但那又怎样 And I say, "It could be true, but so what?
这不是我想要的活下来 It doesn't give me what I want, when I want to survive.
我不仅希望活下来的人是我 What I want isn't just for it to be me.
而且希望活下来的人是带有我人格的我" I want it to be me with my personality."
所以我们是否该这么下结论 So should we conclude, therefore,
真正重要的并不是活下来 that what really matters is not just survival
而是带有相同的人格活下来 but having the same personality?
那么 Would that--
假设人格同一性的人格理论是正确的 Suppose the personality view of personality identity was correct.
它能否让我们不仅活下来 Would that then give us not just personal survival,
而且有意义地活下来 but what matters?
我想它已经很接近了 差点就可以了 I think that's close, but no cigar.
不过还不够完善 Not quite good enough.
要注意一点 回想一下 To see that, recall the fact that
根据人格同一性的人格理论 according to the personality view, as a theory of personality identity,
是同一个人的关键不在于 the crucial point isn't
保持人格完全一样 that my personality stay identical.
我不必保持完全一样的 It's not that I have to keep all
信仰 愿望 和记忆 exactly the very same beliefs, desires, and memories.
因为如果这样的话 Because of course, if we said that,
那我一有新信仰 我就死了 then I'd die as soon as I got a new belief.
我一忘记自己二十分钟前做的事情 I'd die as soon as I forgot anything at all
我也就死了 of what I was doing 20 minutes ago.
当然不是这样 根据人格理论 No, according to the personality theory,
判断人格同一性 what personal identity requires
并不需要完全相同的人格 isn't item-for-item the same personality,
而只需要是同一个不断演变的人格 but rather the same evolving personality.
我会有新信仰 新愿望 新目标 I gain new beliefs, new desires, new goals.
我可能会失去某些以前的信仰 I may lose some of my previous beliefs,
也可能忘掉某些以前的记忆 lose some of my previous memories,
但这都没关系 but that's okay
只要是同一个有足够重叠部分 as long as it's a slowly-evolving personality
慢慢演变的人格就行 with enough overlap.
好了 现在让我们考虑下面这种情况 Okay, so now let's consider the following case.
从我开始 我在这里 I start off. Here I am.
我有一些信念 I've got a set of beliefs,
比如相信自己是雪莱·卡根 a set of--I believe I'm Shelly Kagan,
记得自己在芝加哥长大 a set of memories about growing up in Chicago.
我有一些愿望 I have a certain set of desires
比如说想要完成自己的哲学著作 about wanting to finish my book in philosophy
如此等等 and so forth.
我不断变老 越来越老 And I get older and older and older.
我有了些新记忆 And I get some new memories
有了些新愿望 新目标 and some new desires and some new goals.
假设我已经很老很老了 Suppose that I get very, very, very old.
已经100岁 200岁 300岁了 I get 100 years old, 200 years old, 300 years old.
大约200岁的时候 Somewhere around 200,
我的朋友给我取了个绰号 suppose that my friends give me a nickname.
他们叫我乔乔 They call me Jo-Jo.
天知道为什么 他们叫我乔乔 Who knows why, they call me Jo-Jo.
过了段时间 And after a while,
这个名字传开了 somewhere the name spreads
到了我250岁的时候 and by the time I'm 250 years old,
大家都叫我乔乔 everybody's calling me Jo-Jo.
没人再叫我雪莱了 Nobody calls me Shelly anymore.
到了我300岁 350岁 400岁 And by the time I'm 300, 350, 400,
我已经忘了曾经有人叫我雪莱 I've forgotten anybody used to call me Jo-Jo. [correction: Shelly]
也不记得自己在芝加哥长大 And I no longer remember growing up in Chicago.
我还记得我是个100岁小伙子时的事情 I remember things about my youth when I was a lad of 100.
但再早以前的事情不记得了 But I can't go back to what it was like in the early days,
就像你不记得三四岁时的事情 just like you can't go back to what it was like to be four or three.
假设随着年龄的增长 情况一直如此 And suppose that all this is going on as I'm getting older and older.
我的人格以各种方式不断变化 My personality is changing in a variety of other ways.
我对哲学失去了兴趣 I lose my interest in philosophy
而开始对 and take up an interest in,
我也不清楚 也许对有机化学产生了兴趣 I don't know, something that completely doesn't--organic chemistry
我以前对这门课压根就没兴趣 holds no interest to me whatsoever.
我对有机化学着了迷 I become fascinated by the details of organic chemistry.
我的价值观也变了 And my values change.
现在我是个 现在 站到这边来 Now I'm a kind--now, over here--
我是个和蔼 充满同情心的热心人 I'm a kind, compassionate, warm individual
关心弱势群体 who cares about the downtrodden.
但到了300多岁 我会说 But around 300, I say,
"那帮弱势群体 谁要他们啊" "The downtrodden. Who needs them?"
到了我500岁的时候 And by the time I'm 500,
我变得完全自以为是 I become completely self-absorbed
我变成个凶狠残暴 卑鄙可耻的家伙 and I'm sort of a vicious, cruel, vile person.
现在我800岁 900岁了 Here I am, 800 years old, 900 years old.
《圣经》里的玛士撒拉活了969岁 Methuselah, in the Bible, lives for 969 years.
他是最长寿的人 He's the oldest person.
好啦 我现在也969岁了 So okay, here I am, 969 years old.
就像玛士撒拉一样 I'm like Methuselah.
我们把这个例子称为玛士撒拉案例 Call this the Methuselah case.
这例子中的关键一点就是 And the crucial point about the case is that
我们规定其间没有发生过任何突变 we stipulate that at no point was there a dramatic change.
一切都是渐进地 缓慢地演变 It was all gradual, slow, evolving.
就像在现实生活中发生的那样 in just the way it happens in real life.
只不过 像玛士撒拉一样 It's just that as Methuselah,
我活得非常非常久 I live a very, very, very long time.
到了最后 And by the end of it, and indeed,
比方说到了六七百岁的时候 let's say somewhere around 600 or 700,
我其实已经完全变成了另一个人 I'm a completely different person,
就像我们刚才说的那样 as we might put it.
我不是指真的变了个人 I don't mean literally.
我是指就人格而言变了个人 I mean in terms of my personality.
现在 不要忘了 Now, remember,
根据人格同一性的人格理论 according to the personality theory of personal identity,
判断是不是我的关键在于 what makes it me is the fact
拥有同一个不断演变的人格 that it's the same evolving personality.
这个例子里我们假定了 And I stipulated that
这是同一个不断演变的人格 it is the same evolving personality.
所以那个人依然是我 So that's still me
他在600年 700年以后还活着 that's going to be around 600 years from now, 700 years from now.
可是当我思考这个例子时 But when I think about that case,
我会说"那又怎样 谁在乎呢" I say, "So what? Who cares?"
当我思考这个例子时 When I think about that case,
我会说 I say,
"没错 我们不妨说 "True, we'll just stipulate
他就是700岁时的我" that will be me in 700 years."
但这并没给我想要的东西 But it doesn't give me what I want.
那时的我和现在的我判若两人 That person is so completely unlike me.
他不记得自己是雪莱·卡根 He doesn't remember being Shelly Kagan.
也不记得在芝加哥长大 He doesn't remember growing up in Chicago.
他不记得我的家人 He doesn't remember my family.
他有了新的嗜好 品位和价值观 He has completely different interests and tastes and values."
我会说"就算他是我 又怎样呢 I say "It's me, but so what?
这没给我想要的东西 It doesn't give me what I want.
这对我并没什么意义" It doesn't give me what matters."
我想要的 When I think about what I want,
并不是有个人 it's not just that there be somebody
最终拥有我不断演变的人格 at the tail end of an evolving personality.
我希望那个人要像我 I want that person to be like me,
而并不仅仅是我 not just be me.
我希望那个人像我 I want that person to be like me.
在玛士撒拉一例中 And in the Methuselah case, i've stipulated,
最后那个人和我一点都不像 it ends up not being very much like me at all.
所以我没得到自己想要的东西 So it doesn't give me what I want.
当我思考自己想要什么时 When I think about what I want--
我希望大家 and I'm just going to invite you to,
在座的每个人也都问一下自己 each one of you, to ask yourself
你想要的是什么 what is it that you want,
什么活下来对你有意义 what matters to you in survival?--
当我思考什么对我有意义时 when I think about what matters to me,
我想的不仅仅是活下来 it's not just survival.
不仅仅是带有 It's not just survival
同一个不断演变的人格活下来 as part of the same ongoing personality.
而是带有相似的人格活下来 It's survival with a similar personality.
不需要完全一样 Not identical, item for item,
只要足够接近 跟我相当相似就可以 but close enough to be fairly similar to me.
如果是这样 那这对我就有意义 Give me that, and I've got what matters.
如果不是这样 Don't give me that,
活下来就对我没意义 and I don't have what mattes.
我想再进一步阐述一下这个问题 In fact, I'm inclined to go a little bit further.
一旦我得到这些 Once you give me that,
未来有个人 give me that there's somebody
拥有和我相似的人格 there with my similar personality,
我想这也许就是活下来的全部意义 I think that may be all that matters.
到目前为止 我一直在说 Up to this moment, I've been saying, okay,
仅仅活下来是不够的 survival by itself isn't good enough.
除了活下来 你还需要一些额外的东西 You need survival plus something else.
至少在我的想法中 And I'm now suggesting that in my own case at least,
这个额外的东西 the something else is, something extra,
就是同一个相似的人格 is same, similar personality.
只要我的相似人格活下来 It might be that I get what matters to me even if I have,
那这对我就有意义 as long as I have, similar personality,
即使我没活下来也没关系 even if I don't have survival.
假设 虽然我不相信灵魂 Suppose--I don't believe in souls,
但假设灵魂真的存在 but suppose there really are souls.
假设灵魂是人格同一性的关键 And suppose the soul is the key to personal identity.
假设洛克担心的事情真的发生了 And suppose the thing that Locke was worried about really does happen.
约翰·洛克 英国哲学家 经验主义的开创人 参见本课程系列之第十一课 Every day at midnight God destroys the old soul
每天午夜 上帝都会毁灭旧灵魂 and replaces it with a new soul
用新灵魂代替它 that has the very same personality as the one before midnight,
这个新灵魂与午夜前那个旧灵魂有着 similar personality,
相似的人格 same beliefs, desires, and so forth and so on.
相同的信仰 愿望 等等 If I were to discover that's what was happening metaphysically
如果我发现这就是形而上学中的情况 and the soul view was the true theory of personal identity,
且灵魂理论真是人格同一性的正确理论 I'd say, "Huh! Turns out I'm not going to survive tonight.
我就会说"哈 看来我活不过今晚了 I'm going to die."
我就要死了" Who cares?
但谁又在乎呢 There'll be somebody around tomorrow with my beliefs,
明天还是会有一个人拥有我的信仰 my desires, my goals, my ambitions,
我的愿望 我的目标 我的抱负 my fears, my values.
我的恐惧 以及我的价值观 Good enough.
这就足够了 I don't really care whether I'm going to survive.
我其实不在乎我能不能活下来 What I care about is whether there'll be somebody
我在乎的是 就人格而言 that's similar to me in the right way in terms of my personality.
是否将有一个人和我很像呢 So it might be that the whole question we've been focusing on,
所以也许我们一直在探讨的 "What does it take to survive?"
"我如何才能活下来"这个问题 may have turned out to be misguided.
误导了我们 The real question may not be
真正的问题并不是 "What does it take to survive?"
"如何才能活下来" but "What matters?"
而是"什么活下来才有意义" And it might turn out that although, normally,
也许我们可以说 尽管通常情况下 having what matters goes hand in hand with surviving,
拥有这些重要的东西和活下来密不可分 logically speaking, they can come apart.
但从逻辑上来说 它们是可以分开的 And what matters, or so it seems to me, at least,
至少在我看来 isn't survival per se,
重要的并不是活下来本身 but rather having the same personality.
而是拥有相同的人格活下来 Since I'm inclined to think
我个人倾向于认为 that the body view is the correct theory of personal identity,
肉体理论是人格同一性的正确理论 I want to say, look, somebody around tomorrow,
我会说 瞧 明天会有个人 if overnight God replaces my body
如果上帝昨晚把我的肉体替换成 with some identical looking body
另一具看起来一模一样的肉体 and keeps the personality the same,
而且还带有相同的人格 that won't be me, but all right.
就算那人不是我 也没关系 It's good enough.
已经够好的了 What matters to me isn't survival per se.
对我来说重要的不是活下去本身 Indeed, isn't survival, strictly, at all.
严格说来 根本不是活下去 It's having the same personality.
而是拥有相同的人格 Still, what does that leave us?
那么 这种看法还给我们什么启发呢 That leaves us with the possibility that there could be cases where
这告诉我们 可能在某些情况下 you die and you don't survive,
你死了 你没能活下来 maybe God swoops me up upon death.
或许上帝让我起死回生 My body dies,
尽管肉体已经毁灭 but he sort of swoops up my information about my personality
但上帝取出我的人格信息 and recreates somebody up in heaven with that similar personality.
放在天堂里新造出的一个人里面 It won't be me, if it's a different soul.
如果他有另一个灵魂 那他就不是我 It won't be me, if it's a different body.
如果他有另一个肉体 那他也不是我 But still, I want to say,
但我还是要说 "It will give me what matters!"
"这给了我有意义的东西" That's a possibility.
这是一种可能性 But I don't, in fact, think it's going to happen.
但事实上 我认为这不会发生 I believe--I've told you I'm a physicalist--
我告诉过你们我是个物理主义者 I believe that what's going to happen is,
我相信将会发生的事情是 at the death of my body,
我的肉体死亡之时 that's going to be the end.
一切也就终结了 Now, what I've been arguing is that,
我一直在论证的是 logically speaking, even if you are a physicalist,
从逻辑上讲 即使你是物理主义者 that doesn't rule out the possibility of survival.
也无法排除幸免一死的可能性 Suppose you believe in the personality theory.
假设你相信人格理论 Your body's going to die,
你的肉体将会消亡 but your personality could continue.
但你的人格却能保留下来 Or it might be, even as a body theorist,
再或者 即便你是个肉体理论者 I'll cease to exist
我将不复存在 but what matters will continue.
但对我有意义的东西会接着活下来 These are possibilities.
这些都有可能 But for what it's worth,
但不论真假 I don't in fact believe
其实我不相信 they're actually what's going to happen.
这些真会发生 Of course, these are also theological matters,
当然 这都是神学的事了 and so I'm not trying to say anything here today
我今天不会在这里 to argue you out of the theological conviction
劝说你们放弃神学信仰 that God will resurrect the body
不管是上帝使你肉体复活 or God will transplant your personality into some new angel body,
还是上帝把你的人格放到某位新天使身上 but if you believe in the personality theory,
如果你相信人格理论 that will be you, or what have you.
那个人就是你 如此这般 I'm not--it's not my goal here
我的目的并不是 to argue for or against these theological possibilities,
去争辩或去驳斥神学上的可能性 having at least taken the time to explain philosophically
花时间从哲学上 how we could make sense of them.
来把事情搞清楚 But I do want to report that I don't believe them.
但我真的想说 我不相信那些观点 I believe that when my body dies, that's it for me.
我相信当我肉体死了 我就死了 There won't be anything that's me afterwards.
之后再不会有别的什么我 There won't be anything that's--
不会再有别的什么 even though what I want per se isn't survival.
即便我想要的还不仅仅是活下来本身 Not only won't I survive,
不光我不会活下来 I believe after my death
我相信在我死后 what matters to me in that situation won't continue either.
那些对我来说重要的东西也将不复存在 There won't be somebody with
在我肉体死后 a similar personality to mine after the death of my body.
不可能有人拥有和我相似的人格 All right, so having spent all this time
好了 我们已经花时间 getting clearer about the nature of personal identity,
搞清楚了人格同一性的本质 and getting clearer about what people are,
搞清楚了人是什么 and the possibilities of survival, and so forth,
还有幸免一死的种种可能性 等等 having argued against the existence of souls,
我们驳斥了灵魂存在的说法 and for a physicalist view--
并从物理主义者的角度 physicalism seems compatible with both the body view
物理主义似乎能同时接受肉体理论 and the personality view,
以及人格理论 leave it to you to decide between them,
具体选择哪一个就是你的事情了 I myself currently favor the body view--
目前我是比较偏好肉体理论 Let's ask,
让我们问一下 "So just what is death,
"从物理主义的角度出发 anyway, on the physicalist view?"
死亡到底是什么" It might seem as though it's fairly straightforward.
尽管看起来似乎很明确 A person, after all, is just a body
人 说到底 就是一具肉体 that's functioning in the right way
它以正确的方式运转 so as to do these person tricks.
以便完成一些人的行为 It's P-functioning,
也就是人体功能 as we've put it at one time or another.
我们不止一次提到过 And so a person is just a P-functioning body,
人就是一具实现人体功能的肉体 whether you emphasize the body side there
无论你强调它的肉体方面 or the personality side of that equation.
还是人格方面 What exactly is it to die? When do I die?
死亡到底是什么 我何时死亡 Let's turn to that question.
我们现在讨论这个问题 When do I die and what is death?
我何时死亡 死亡究竟是什么 Roughly speaking, the answer, presumably,
大致上说 答案大概是 on the physicalist view,
在物理主义者看来 is going to be something like--
死亡就是 if I'm alive when we've got a P-functioning body,
若我的肉体能实现人体功能 我就活着 roughly speaking, I die when that stops happening,
简单来说 当它停止运转 when the body breaks and
当肉体分解 停止正常工作时 it stops functioning properly.
我就死了 That seems, more or less,
这或多或少算是 the right answer from the physicalist point of view,
物理主义者给出的正确答案 although as we'll see probably later today,
我们一会儿会看到 we need to refine it somewhat.
我们还要稍微完善这个答案 But first, let's ask a slightly different question.
但是首先 我们问一个略有不同的问题 Which functions are crucial in defining the moment of death?
定义死亡时刻时 哪些功能至关重要 After all,
毕竟 we've got the idea that here's the body,
我们意识到这里有个肉体 here's a functioning body.
这是个正常运转的肉体 Here's one in front of you.
在你们面前有一个 Each one of you has got one.
你们每个人也有一个 You're a functioning body.
你就是一具正常运转的肉体 There's a variety of functions that your body's engaged in.
你的肉体可以做很多事情 Some of them have to do with merely digesting food
有些部分只负责消化 and moving the body around,
有些移动肉体 and making the heart beat,
有些让心脏跳动 and the lungs open and close.
让肺呼吸 Call those things the bodily functions.
我们把这些称为肉体功能 And there's also, of course, in each one of our cases,
同时我们每个人 there's these higher mental cognitive functions
都有高级心理认知能力 that I've been calling the person functioning,
我称这些为人格功能 there's the B-functions
这边是肉体功能 and there's the P-functions.
这边是人格功能 Well, roughly speaking,
大致说来 I die when the functioning stops,
当这些功能停止时我就死了 but which functions?
但到底是哪种功能呢 Is it the body functions or the personality functions?
是肉体功能还是人格功能 So let's take a look at the normal situation.
我们看个通常情况下的例子 Here's the existence of your body.
这是你肉体存在的时间 And during most of the existence of your body,
在你肉体存在的大部分时间里 it's functioning.
它都在工作 The body functions.
肉体功能 Over here, it's no longer functioning.
这里 它就不再工作了 It's a corpse.
成为尸体 During some of the period when your body's functioning,
在你的肉体正常工作期间 it's doing the higher cognitive stuff.
你可以进行高级认知活动 The personality functions.
即人格功能 Now, this is the very early stuff
这边是早期 when your body's still developing
你的肉体还在孕育 and your brain hasn't turned on yet,
你的大脑还没启动 or your brain is turned on,
也或者大脑已经启动了 but it hasn't actually become a person yet, right?
但还不能称为一个人 At least in the case of the fetus,
至少胎儿不能称为人 it's not self-conscious.
胎儿没有自我意识 It's not rational.
没有理性 It's not able to communicate.
无法交流 It's not creative and so forth.
没有创造力 等等 That comes later.
这些要之后才能有 All right, so there's Phase A.
这是A阶段 There's Phase B.
这是B阶段 There's Phase C.
这是C阶段 That's the normal situation,
这就是通常情况 the normal case.
通常案例 The body exists.
肉体存在 It functions for a while before the P-functioning begins.
在人格功能开始前就已经工作一段时间了 And then after a while
之后不久 the body and P-functioning are both going on.
肉体功能和人格功能同时运转 And then after a while they stop.
再过不久 两者都停止 In the normal case,
通常情况下 I'm in a car accident or whatever it is,
要是遇到车祸什么的 and my body stops functioning,
我的肉体功能停止 my personality stops functioning,
人格功能也停止 and you're left with a corpse.
那就成为一具尸体了 When did I die?
我何时死亡 Well, the natural suggestion is to say I died here.
一般认为我死于这个时候 I'll draw my little star, an asterisk.
我画个星号 In the normal case,
通常情况下 I die when my body stops functioning,
当我肉体停止运转时 in terms of the body functions.
肉体功能停止 我就死了 And it stops functioning in terms of the personality functions.
同时人格功能也停止了 That's the normal case.
这就是通常的情况 But we could still ask the philosophical question.
但我们仍然可以提出一个哲学问题 Since what we had here was
既然在这一时刻 我们 simultaneously losing both the ordinary body functioning
同时失去一般化的肉体功能 and the special personality functioning,
以及个性化的人格功能 which loss was the crucial one
哪一个损失更关键 in terms of defining the moment of my death?
哪个决定我的死亡时刻 Let's come back to that question in a minute.
我们等一下再来考虑这个问题 First, I want to ask a slightly different question.
首先 我问个略微不同的问题 When did I cease to exist?
我何时停止存在 Or, to put it slightly differently,
或者换种稍微不同的说法 do I exist during Phase C,
在阶段C when the body has stopped functioning?
当肉体停止工作的时候 我还存在吗 Both in terms of body functions and personality functions,
无论从肉体功能还是人格功能出发 I'm just a corpse. Do I exist?
我都只是个尸体 我还存在吗 Now, let's suppose
我们假设 we believe the personality theory of personal identity.
我们相信人格同一性的人格理论 According to the personality theory of personal identity,
根据人格同一性的人格理论 for something to be me,
判断一个人是不是我 it's got to have the very same personality,
需要拥有同样的人格 the same evolving,
同样的演变过程 but still the same set of beliefs, desires, goals, so forth.
同样的信念 愿望和目标等等 Now, during period C,
而在C阶段 there's nothing with my personality, right?
没有东西拥有我的人格 Nobody thinks they're Shelly Kagan.
没人认为自己是雪莱·卡根 Nobody has my memories, beliefs,
没人拥有我的记忆 信念 exact desires, goals and so forth.
愿望和目标 等等 Pretty clearly then, on the personality theory,
非常清楚 根据人格理论 I don't exist at Phase C.
在C阶段我不存在 That's why it's natural to point to
这就是为什么我们很自然地 the moment of star when we say that's when my death occurs.
把星号标记的时刻定为我死亡的时刻 I don't exist at Phase C.
在C阶段我不存在 But interestingly,
但有趣的是 things look rather different if we accept not the personality theory,
若我们抛开人格理论 而采用肉体理论 but instead, the body theory.
事情就大不一样了 After all, according to the body theory of personal identity,
根据人格同一性的肉体理论 for somebody to be me,
判断一个人是我 they've got to have my body.
他要具有我的肉体 Follow the body.
根据肉体判断 Same body, same person.
肉体同则人同 All right, here we are.
那么 看这边 Here's my corpse.
这是我的尸体 What is a corpse?
什么是尸体 It's a body, and indeed,
其实就是肉体 my corpse is my body.
我的尸体就是我的肉体 So follow the body means follow the person.
所以根据肉体判断就是指根据人来判断 The corpse is still around.
尸体依然存在 It means my body's still around.
说明肉体依然存在 It means I'm still around.
也就说明我依然存在 It's like, I mean, I'm dead, but I still exist.
这就像说 我死了 但我依然存在 It's like a bad joke, right?
像个冷笑话 不是吗 So here's the question
问题来了 we started the class off with.
课程一开始我就问 Will you survive your death?
你能幸免一死吗 Will you still exist after death?
你能在死后存在吗 Well, there's good news and there's bad news.
我有一个好消息和一个坏消息 Since I believe in the body theory,
因为我相信肉体理论 the good news is,
好消息是 you will exist after your death.
你死后依旧会存在 The bad news is, you'll be a corpse.
坏消息是你将以尸体的形式存在 That seems like a bad joke,
这像一个冷笑话 but if the body theory is right,
但若肉体理论是对的 it's not a joke at all.
这就完全不是笑话了 It's literally speaking the truth.
这只是在陈述事实 I will exist, at least for a while.
至少在我死后一段时间内 我仍然存在 Eventually, the body will decay,
最终肉体会腐败消亡 turn into atoms or whatever it is, decompose.
变成原子什么的 分解了 At that point my body no longer exists.
在我肉体消亡的那一刻 At that point, I will no longer exist.
从那一刻起 我将不复存在 But at least for a while, during period C,
但至少在一段时间内 在C阶段 the body theorist should say,
肉体理论者会说 "Yeah, you will exist.
"没错 你是会存在 You will exist, but you won't be alive."
你会存在 但你并不是活的" It just reinforces the point
它只是再一次强调了 that I was trying to make a few moments ago
我刚才一直讲的 that the crucial question is not survival per se.
重要的不是幸存本身 The crucial question is,
重要的是 what did you want out of survival?
你想从幸存中得到什么 And one of the things
其中之一 I wanted out of survival was to be alive.
我想从幸存中得到的就是活着 All right, so on the body view,
在肉体理论看来 I exist here,
我存在 but I'm not alive,
但我没活着 so it doesn't give me what matters.
这没带给我有意义的东西 On the personality view,
在人格理论看来 I don't exist when I'm a corpse.
我成为尸体就是不存在了 Let's go back and ask the question,
我们回过头来看这个问题 well, so which is it?
哪个因素决定生死 Which is the one that's the crucial for defining the moment of death, right?
哪个是决定死亡时刻的重要因素 Even on the body view,
即使在肉体理论看来 the fact that I exist isn't good enough,
我存在也说明不了任何问题 because I'm not alive.
因为我没活着 I want to know, when am I alive?
我想知道 什么时候我活着 When am I dead?
什么时候我死了 So what's crucial for defining the moment of death?
哪个是定义死亡时刻的重要因素 Is it body functioning or personality functioning?
是肉体功能还是人格功能 Well, you can't tell by thinking about the normal case,
通过研究一般案例 我们得不到答案 because the B-functioning and the P-functioning
因为肉体功能和人体功能 stop at the same time.
同时停止 But suppose we draw the abnormal case.
但是假设我们画一个反常案例 All right, here's C with the corpse again.
好了 C阶段这里还是尸体 Here's a period when the body's been functioning
在这段时间里 肉体功能在运转 and goes like this.
就像这样 Here's the period back here,
这段时间里 A, where the body's been functioning,
A阶段 肉体在运转 but the personality hasn't started yet.
人格功能还未启动 And now imagine,
假设 so this is personality.
这里是人格功能 Over here we've got body.
这里是肉体功能 We'll call this B again.
我们仍然把它叫B阶段 What I've done is imagine a case
我画的这个案例里 in which the personality functioning stops
人格功能先停止 before the rest of the body functioning stops.
而肉体功能还没停止 Obviously, the phases are no longer in alphabetical order,
很明显 这些阶段不以字母顺序排列了 but I introduced D in the middle
我在中间插入一个D阶段 so the other phases could keep their same labels.
这样其它阶段标号不变 Well, here's a case where--
这个案例里 When does the body functioning stop?
肉体功能何时停止 End of D.
在D阶段末尾 When does the personality functioning stop?
人格功能何时停止 End of B.
在B阶段末尾 So we've got two candidates.
现在有了两个时刻 Star one and star two.
星号一和星号二 Star one says "Death occurs
星号一说"当人格功能停止时 when personality stops functioning."
人就死了" Star two says "No, no,
星号二说"不对不对 death occurs when bodily functioning stops."
肉体功能停止 人就死了" Well, again, the question is,
问题是 what should we say?
我们应该持哪种看法 I think we're going to
我想我们可能会 perhaps be drawn to different answers,
得出两种结论 depending on whether we accept the body view
这取决于我们接受肉体理论 or the personality view.
还是人格理论 Suppose we accept the body view.
假设我们接受肉体理论 Well, look,
那么 if the relevant question is "When do I die?"
对于"我何时死亡"这个问题 and I am a body,
由于我是个肉体 then presumably the straightforward answer at least is going to be
那么简单明了 答案至少会是 "I die when my body stops functioning."
"肉体不再工作时 我就死了" When is that?
具体是何时 Star two.
星号二 During period D,
在D阶段 I'm still alive,
我仍然活着 but I'm no longer functioning as a person.
但不再像人那样运转 I am no longer a person.
我不再是一个人 That's interesting.
这很有意思 It's not just that I exist.
我不仅仍然存在 In C,
在C阶段 I can exist without being alive, as a corpse.
我以尸体的形式存在 但没活着 In D,
在D阶段 I'm alive but I'm not a person.
我活着 但我不是一个人 You recall when we talked about Plato,
我们曾经讲过柏拉图 we introduced the notion of essential properties.
介绍过基本属性的概念 And it seems that if we accept the body view,
如果我们接受肉体理论 we have to say being a person
我们会说 是不是一个人 is not an essential property of being something like me.
不是我这类东西的基本属性 It's not one of my essential properties that I'm a person.
我的基本属性里没有"我是人"这一条 I am, in fact, a person,
我确实是个人 but that won't always be true of me.
但这并不永远成立 When I'm a corpse,
当我变成一具尸体 I will cease to be a person,
我不再是一个人 but I'll still exist.
但我仍然存在 And if we have this unusual case
考虑这个特殊的例子 in which my brain has a stroke,
我大脑中风了 loses its higher cognitive functioning,
失去了高级认知功能 so that the body continues
肉体仍能工作 to breathe, eat, respirate, and so forth,
能呼吸 进食 人工呼吸等等 the heart continues to pump,
心脏仍跳动 but there's no longer anything capable of thinking, reasoning,
只是不能思考 推理 we say, look, I still exist.
我们说 看 我还存在 Indeed, I'm alive, but I'm not a person.
其实我还活着 只是不再是一个人 Being a person is something
作为一个人 you can go through for a period of time
是你能在一段时间内保持这种状态 and cease to be.
然后不再继续下去 In the same way that being a child is a phase
同样 作为一个小孩 you can go through for a period of time
也是你能在一段时间内保持这种状态 and then cease to be.
然后不再继续下去 Or being a professor is a phase
作为教授也是在一段时间内 you can go through and then cease to be.
保持这种状态 然后不再继续下去 You can still exist without being a professor.
你不做教授仍然可以存在 I can still be alive without being a professor.
我不做教授仍然可以活着 Well, on the body view,
就肉体理论来说 we have to say the same thing
对于人是否以人的状态存在 about being a person.
会得出同样的结论 Being a person is something that I,
是一个人 就是说我 namely my body, can do for a while.
也就是我的肉体 会持续工作一段时间 It wasn't doing it back here in A.
它不在A阶段工作 It certainly won't be doing it in C.
当然也不在C阶段工作 And it won't be doing it in D either.
也不在D阶段工作 Being a person is something on the body view
就肉体理论来说 作为一个人 that I am only for part of my existence and indeed,
只是我这个存在的一部分 only for part of my life.
只占据了我生命的部分时间 Well, that's what it seems we should say on the body view.
以肉体理论看来就是这样 What if instead we accept the personality theory?
那么如果我们接受人格理论又如何呢 Then--
接下来 actually, one more remark about the body view.
再提一点肉体理论的话题 Notice that if you accept this account of what the body view
如果你接受肉体理论的这种说法 should say about when death is,
你会说死亡就是 my death is when I cease to be alive.
死亡就是我不再活着 I am my body.
我就是我的肉体 So my death occurs at star two,
所以我在星号二时死去 loss of bodily function.
我失去了肉体功能 And being a person is just a phase.
然而作为人只是我的一个阶段 Notice that if we say that,
如果我们这样说 then there's something somewhat misleading about
就可能会产生一些误导 the standard philosophical label for the problems
误导我们这几周一直探讨的 we've been thinking about for the last couple of weeks.
哲学问题的名称 We've been worrying about the nature of personal identity.
我们一直在探讨人格同一性的本质 That is to say,
也就是说 what is it for somebody to be me.
判断一个人是我的关键是什么 But notice that that label, "Personal identity,"
但是注意它的名称"人格同一性" "The problem of personal identity,"
"人格同一性的问题" seems to have built into it the assumption
它似乎不言自明地假设了 that whatever it is that's me is going to be a person.
不管谁是我 他都会是一个人 Is it the same person or not?
是否是同一个人 Now, it turns out that that assumption,
现在 看来这个假设 standardly built into the usual label, may be false.
名称中隐含的假设 可能是错的 On the body view,
以肉体理论来看 it could still be me without being a person at all.
即使完全不是一个人 仍然可能是我 So the problem of existence through time,
所以 时间中的存在问题 or persistence through time,
或时间中的持续性问题 shouldn't be called the problem of personal identity,
并不能称作人格同一性的问题 but just the problem of identity.
而只能称作同一性的问题 You know, a footnote.
这算是个补充说明 Turning now again to the personality theory.
现在来考虑人格理论 If we accept the personality theory of personal identity,
如果我们接受人格同一性的人格理论 then for someone to be me,
那么判断一个人是不是我 they've got to have the same personality.
就得要拥有同样的人格 And so for something, for me to exist,
要让我存在 my personality has to be around.
就得让我的人格存在 Well, that's why we said up here
所以我们说在这里 that in Phase C when there's a corpse,
在C阶段成为尸体以后 I don't exist.
我就不复存在了 There's nothing with my personality.
因为没有东西拥有我的人格 As a corpse, I no longer exist.
作为一具尸体 我不再存在 What should we say about Phase D, on the personality theory?
对于D阶段 人格理论会如何解读呢 Here, my body is functioning,
这里 我的肉体在运转 but my personality has been destroyed.
但我的人格已经消失 Nothing exists with my beliefs, memories,
没有东西拥有我的信念 记忆 desires, fears, values, goals, ambitions.
愿望 恐惧 价值观 目标 抱负 Well, if I just am my personality,
如果我仅仅是我的人格 then I don't exist in Phase D,
那么我在D阶段就不存在 because there's nothing there to be me,
因为此时没有东西是我 nothing with my personality.
没有东西具有我的人格 According to the personality theory, follow the personality.
根据人格理论 依据人格判断同一性 The personality ended at star one.
在星号一人格消失了 So I don't exist at Phase D
所以我在D阶段不存在 on the personality theory.
这是人格理论的结论 Okay good. I don't exist.
好的 现在我不存在 But what should we say? Am I alive or not?
那该怎么说 我还活着吗 Well, my body's still alive,
我的肉体依然活着 so should we say that I'm alive?
那我们可以说我还活着吗 After all, my body's still functioning until star two.
毕竟我的肉体直到星号二都还在运转 During Phase D,
在D阶段 my body seems to still be alive.
我的肉体还活着 Should we say that I'm alive?
我们能说我还活着吗 That's rather hard to believe, right?
这有点让人难以信服 Think about what it would mean to say that.
想想这句话背后的含义 We'd being saying on the personality theory,
我们会说根据人格理论 I don't exist, but I'm alive.
我不存在了 但我还活着 That seems like a very unpalatable combination of views.
这种组合很怪异 How can I be alive if I don't even exist?
我怎么可能在不存在的情况下活着 So it seems we have to say
所以看来我们只能说 I'm not alive during Phase D.
在D阶段 我没活着 Not only don't I exist during Phase D,
在D阶段我不但不存在 I'm not alive either.
而且也没活着 Yet, my body is alive;
但是 我的肉体还活着 that's the whole stipulation.
这就是完整的陈述 So it looks as though the personality theorist
看来人格理论 is going to have to introduce a distinction between "my being alive",
需要区分"我活着" on the one hand, and "my body being alive", on the other.
和"我肉体活着"这两种情况 In the normal case--up at the top,
但在通常情况下 看上面 those two deaths occur simultaneously.
这两种死亡同时发生 My body stops being alive at the very same moment that I cease being alive.
肉体和我同时停止存活 But in the abnormal case,
但是在反常案例中 the personality theorist needs to say,
人格理论会说 or so it seems to me,
我也这样认为 the two deaths come apart.
这两种死亡是分开的 The death of my body occurs at star two.
肉体死亡发生在星号二 My death occurs at star one.
我的死亡发生在星号一 Notice that the body theorist
注意肉体理论者 didn't need to draw that distinction.
并不用区分这两者的差别 Because if I just am my body,
因为如果说我就是我的肉体 then well, I'm just my body.
那我就是我的肉体 My death occurs at the death of my body.
我的死亡就发生在我肉体死亡的时候 But still, even the body theorist needs a different distinction.
但肉体理论者还是得区分一些东西 We already learned, by thinking about the corpse case,
我们通过尸体的例子 已经学到 that existence wasn't good enough for the body theorist.
仅仅存在 对肉体理论来说完全不够 He wanted to be alive.
他还要活着 And when I think about Phase D,
在我考虑D阶段的时候 I want to say something more.
我还想要强调一点 It's not good enough that I'm alive.
我仅仅活着也不够 I want to be a person.
我还要成为一个人 So what matters to me isn't just being alive,
对我来说仅仅活着没有意义 but being back here during Phase B.
有意义的是回到B阶段 So then it needs something like the same distinction.
那么我们就需要区分 Not, my death versus my body's death,
不是区分我的死亡还是我肉体的死亡 but perhaps the death of the person,
而是区分我这个人的死亡 if we could talk that way,
如果我们可以这样说的话 versus the death of the body.
还是我肉体的死亡 My death, for the body view,
根据肉体理论 occurs with the death of my body.
我死亡发生在我肉体死亡之时 But in terms of what matters,
但说到对我的意义 it's the death of the person and that's star one,
是在星号一时我这个人的死亡 not star two.
而不是星号二 Now, I want to take just a couple of minutes
现在我想花几分钟谈一谈 and mention some other puzzles, or at least questions,
其它问题 或者至少是一些 worth thinking about in terms of the physicalist picture.
在物理主义者眼中值得思考的问题 I'm only going to point to them,
我只是简单介绍 rather than explore them.
不去深入探讨 But I've been focused on the question about the end of life.
我们一直在关注生命结束的问题 We might ask as well, what about the beginning?
但我们也会问 那生命的初始呢 What should we say about Phase A,
我们要如何解释A阶段 when the body is turned on and functioning, developing,
当肉体已经在运转 发育 but the brain has not yet gotten to the stage at which it's turned on,
但是大脑还没开始工作 or perhaps it hasn't yet become,
也可能还没有成型 well, it's not doing person functioning.
它还没开始像人那样运转 It's not reasoning.
没有在推理 It's not communicating.
没有在交流 It's not thinking.
没有在思考 It's not aware.
没有自觉 It's not conscious.
没有意识 There's going to be some Phase A like that.
在A阶段大概就是这样 What should we say about that phase?
那么我们怎么解释这个阶段呢 Do I exist during that phase or don't I?
我在这个阶段是否存在呢 Well, on the body view,
从肉体理论来看 I suppose we should say I do exist.
我认为我们应该说我是存在的 Being a person is a phase.
作为人的存在是某个阶段的事 We happen to have, in Phase A,
在A阶段 我们正处于 the stage of my existence before I become a person.
作为人之前的存在阶段 Of course,
当然 if we take the version of the body view
如果我们采用肉体理论的最佳版本 that what I am, essentially--
我本质上就是 the crucial body part--is my brain,
我肉体上最关键的部分 我的大脑 then we really would have to subdivide A into two parts:
那么我们就需要把阶段A分成两个部分 early A and late A.
A的早期和A的晚期 In very, very early A,
在非常非常早期的A阶段 the brain hasn't even developed yet.
大脑甚至还没发育 It hasn't been constructed yet.
它还没有构成 If I just am my brain, in effect,
如果说我仅仅是我的大脑的话 then early A,
那么在A的早期 I don't exist yet.
我并不存在 Not until late A,
直到A的晚期 when the brain gets put together, that I start to exist.
当大脑逐渐形成时 我才开始存在 There is something there.
这有一些需要注意的地方 It's my body,
这是我的肉体 but it's not me, in early A.
但在A的早期 它不是我 It seems sort of hard to believe,
这似乎有点难以置信 but maybe that's the right thing to say.
但或许这才是正确的说法 In any event, the fans of the personality theory
在任何情况下 人格理论的拥护者 shouldn't be laughing too hard,
不用高兴得太早 because they're going to have to say something similar.
因为他们很可能也得出相似的结论 Remember, if you accept the personality theory,
请记住 如果你接受人格理论 follow the personality.
根据人格判断同一性 Don't got the same personality?
那么没有同样的人格 I cease to exist.
我就不存在了 That's why we said on the personality theory,
所以根据人格理论 as we went ahead in time, once the P-functioning stops,
我们随着时间发展 一旦人格功能停止 I don't exist anymore.
我们就不存在了 That's what the personality theorist said.
这就是人格理论者的主张 But we can raise that same point going backwards.
但我们也可以开始时就这样说 When did I begin to exist on the personality theory?
基于人格理论 我什么时候开始存在 Not until my continuing,
直到我持续的 evolving through time
不断演变的人格开始出现时 personality started.
我才存在 And that certainly wasn't true way back at the start of A,
这在A阶段开始时显然不成立 as the fertilized egg first begins to split and multiply,
那时受精卵刚开始分裂 繁殖 subdivide and make organs.
分化并且形成器官 It's a good long time
直到很长时间以后 till any kind of mental processing occurs at all.
才出现一些精神活动 So on the personality theory,
所以根据人格理论 I did not exist when that fertilized egg came into being,
我在受精卵形成时并不存在 when the egg and the sperm joined.
当卵子和精子结合 That's still not me, on the personality theory.
根据人格理论 那还不是我 Clearly, these issues are relevant for thinking about the morality of abortion.
很明显 这与堕胎的道德问题有联系 I'm not going to pursue them here,
我不打算在这儿继续深入探讨下去 but you can see how they'd be relevant.
但是你们可以看到它们之间的关联 If we want to worry about when,
如果我们需要考虑 if ever, is an abortion justified,
堕胎在什么情况下是合理的 it might be worth getting clear on,
那我们就必须清楚 when do creatures like us start?
像我们这样的生命是何时开始的 Interesting question, but having noted it,
很有趣的话题 但是我们只提一下 let me put it aside. Ah, question.
现在我们把它放到一边 请问 The question was:
这个问题是 Would it be plausible to say that at the early phases of A,
"是否可以说在A阶段早期 strictly speaking, the body's not functioning,
严格来说 肉体还没工作 because it's so utterly dependent on help from the mother's body.
因为它还完全依赖母亲的肉体 It needs the mother for respiration,
需要母亲来提供呼吸 for nutrients, and so forth and so on."
营养 等等" That's a great question.
这是个很好的问题 And it's the sort of question
就是因为这类的问题 and the reason why I said
我才会说 I wanted to glance in this direction without really going there.
我只想简略介绍一下而不想深究 That's a nice example of it.
这就是个很好的例子 We might wonder,
我们可能会问 just when should we say
我们什么时候才能说 the body functioning really does start?
肉体机能真正开始运转呢 How much independence does it take?
它有多少独立性呢 We could draw yet another picture
我们可以另外画一幅 of a different way a life could come to an end.
生命从有到无的完全不同的示意图 Imagine a body towards the end of life,
想象一下生命即将终结的肉体 on life support machinery.
由生命维持设备维持 Do we want to say the body's functioning or not functioning?
我们认为它是否还在运转呢 Well, hard cases there.
这是个难题 So similarly,
那么同理 there's going to be hard cases about the very, very early stages.
在最初阶段 我们也不好下结论 And although they're great questions
当然这些都是好问题 and I'm happy to discuss them with you further,
我也愿意在课后和你们继续探讨 I don't want to pursue them here and now.
但是现在我不想说太多 I want to point to a different question that--
我想提出另一个不同的问题 I think it's a crucially important question.
我认为它是一个非常重要的问题 My unwillingness to discuss them
我不愿意继续讨论刚才那些问题 isn't a matter of my judgment that they're unimportant,
并不是因为我觉得它们不重要 just trying to keep at least roughly on track.
我只是希望能够大致保持进度 Come back to the end of life.
让我们回到生命结束的时候 Think some more about Phase D and ask.
再考虑一下D阶段 All right, so this is something that's--
好的 那么这时候 If the personality function's been destroyed,
如果人格功能毁坏了 can't be recovered, can't be fixed,
不能恢复 也不能修复 but the rest of the bodily functioning is still going on.
但是肉体功能正常运转 The heart's pumping, the lungs are breathing and so forth.
心脏在跳动 肺在呼吸 等等 The body's able to digest food.
肉体还可以消化食物 There we are in Phase D, in something like, perhaps,
我们在D阶段 好比说 persistent vegetative state.
成了永久植物人 Now, imagine that we've got somebody
现在 有一个人 who needs a heart transplant
需要做心脏移植手术 or a kidney transplant, liver transplant.
或者是肾脏移植 肝脏移植 And tissue compatibility tests reveal this body's compatible,
而且组织相容性测试显示这具肉体很符合 suitable donor.
是合适的捐赠源 Can we take it or not?
我们能否取出他的器官呢 Well, you might have thought we answer that
首先我们需要回答 by asking "Am I still alive?"
"我还活着吗" Well, rip out the heart,
那么 把我心脏取出来 it's going to kill me, right?
就会杀了我 不是吗 So if I'm still alive,
所以如果我还活着 you can't do that sort of thing.
你们便不能那样做 It's killing me.
这会杀了我 Well, if we take the personality theory,
但是 如果我们同意人格理论 we have to say, my body's still alive,
我们会说 我的肉体还活着 but I'm not still alive.
但我没活着 That's what we seem to want to say.
这就是我们的结论 If I'm not still alive,
如果我没活着 all we'd be killing isn't me, but my body.
那么杀死的就不是我 而是我的肉体 So now we have to ask,
所以我们现在必须问 who or what has the right to life?
什么人或者什么东西有权利活着 Do I have the right to life,
我有活着的权利吗 or does my body have the right to life?
还是我的肉体有活着的权利 Or we might say, look, certainly I have a right to life.
我们可能会说 我当然有活着的权利 But is it also true that in addition to me,
但是除了我以外 my body has a right to life?
我的肉体也有活着的权利吗 Is there something immoral about removing the organs during Phase D
在D阶段取出器官符合道德吗 when the person is dead and the only thing that's still alive is the body?
那时人已经死了但肉体还活着 Don't be too quick to assume the answer that's got to be yeah,
不要太快下结论 it's still wrong.
说它是错的 After all, on the body view,
毕竟 根据肉体理论 I still exist when I'm a corpse.
我成为尸体时也是存在的 But of course, there's nothing wrong about taking my heart,
但是当然 摘走我心脏没什么不对 even though I still exist.
即使我还存在 After all, I'm a corpse.
也只不过是具尸体而已 Why not then say,
同样 similarly, even though my body's still alive,
我们何不直接说即使我的肉体还活着 nothing wrong about removing the heart
但是这个人已经死了 if the person is dead.
所以摘走心脏没什么不对 At least, the personality view opens the door to saying that.
至少 人格理论为这种说法敞开了大门 What about the body view?
那么肉体理论怎么看 On the body view, of course,
根据肉体理论 I just am my body.
我只是我的肉体 I'm still alive.
[在D阶段]我还活着 Now is it wrong?
那这么做就不对吗 Just like, with the body view,
根据肉体理论 we wanted to say,
我们会说 "Being alive is not all it's cracked up to be,"
"活着并没有听上去那么好" the real question is not,
真正的问题并不是 "Am I alive, on the body view?"
"就肉体理论来讲我是否还活着" An interesting question is,
这个问题其实是 "Am I still a person?"
"我还作为人活着吗" And indeed, although I'm alive on the body view,
的确 尽管根据肉体理论我还活着 I'm not still a person.
但我已经不是一个人了 Maybe it's not so much that I have a right not to be killed.
也许我不被杀死的权利没有那么不容置疑 Maybe I have a right not to be depersonified,
也许我只有权不被剥夺的人的形态 to have my personality destroyed.
人格有权不被消灭 If that's the real right, then again,
如果这才是真正的权利 那么 there'd be nothing wrong with removing the heart in D.
在D阶段摘走心脏就没什么不妥 Well, again, clearly, very, very important
很显然 这也是个非常非常重要 and very, very complicated questions.
且非常非常复杂的问题 But having gestured toward them, I want to put them aside.
我们点到为止 现在不考虑这些问题了 Instead, I want to raise the following question.
我想提出另一个的问题 So look, what I've just been talking about for the last half hour or so
我刚刚花了半小时一直在讲 is the fact that we've got to get clear,
我们需要弄明白 in thinking about the nature of death,
死亡的本质 as to whether or not the crucial moment is the moment
死亡的时刻到底是 when the personality functioning stops
人格功能消失的时刻 or the moment when the bodily functioning stops.
还是肉体功能停止的时刻 As we saw by thinking about the abnormal case,
当我们考察反常案例时 these things can come apart and we can have Phase D.
这些死亡可以分开 所以就有了D阶段 But in the normal case,
但在通常情况下 they happen at the same moment.
它们是同时发生的 And I've drawn a lot of different distinctions about what would you say
我刚才做了很多区分 if you're a personality theorist to deal with this?
站在人格理论的角度怎样解释 What would you say if you're a body theorist to deal with this?
站在肉体理论的角度又怎样解释 Having drawn all those distinctions,
我们区分了很多不同的说法 I'm going to just ride roughshod over them
我将会越过这些概念 and put them aside.
把它们放到一边 And let's just suppose
现在我们假设 that we're dealing with the normal case,
我们面临的是正常情况 where the body functioning stops at the same time
也就是肉体功能和 as the personality functioning stops.
人格功能同时停止运转 So what is death?
那么死亡究竟是什么 What's the moment of death?
何时是死亡的时刻 What is it to die, on the physicalist view?
从物理主义者的角度看 什么是死亡 Well, at first glance,
乍一看 you might think the answer is,
你可能会觉得答案是 "Look, you exist, you're alive, whatever it is--"
"看 你存在 你活着" as I said, I'm just going to be loose now,
正如我刚才所说 我现在要放宽要求 I'm going to put aside all the careful distinctions I just drew--
忽略刚才那些仔细区分的概念 I'm still around as long as
只要我的肉体还具有人体功能 my body is P-functioning.
我就活着 And when my body's not P-functioning,
而当我的肉体没有人体功能了 I'm not still around.
我就死了 Either I don't exist or I'm not alive or I'm not a person,
或者说我不存在 没活着 不再是人 whichever precise way we have to put it.
随你怎么说 That seems like the natural proposal for the physicalist to make.
这似乎是物理主义者会自然得出的结论 To be dead is to no longer be P-functioning.
死亡就是不再具有人体功能 But that can't quite be right.
但这不完全正确 Because imagine, don't just imagine,
因为想象一下 别只想像 just remember what happened to you
请好好回忆一下 last night around 3:20 a.M.
昨天凌晨3:20左右你在做什么 Let's just suppose that at 3:20 a.M.
假设凌晨3:20 you were asleep and indeed,
你在睡觉 而且此时 you weren't dreaming.
你没做梦 You weren't thinking.
没在思考 You weren't reasoning.
没有推理 You weren't communicating.
没有跟人交流 You weren't remembering.
没有在回想 You weren't making plans.
没在制定计划 You weren't being creative.
也没运用创造力 You were not engaged in P-functioning.
你没在运用人体功能 If we take this simple straightforward view and say
如果我们接受这个简单直白的观点 you're dead when you're not P-functioning anymore,
即 没运用人体功能你就死了 then you were dead,
那你当时已经死了 on and off and on and off, last night.
昨晚你不停地死去活来 Well, that clearly doesn't seem to be the right thing to say.
显然 这听起来肯定不对 So we're going to have to revise the P-functioning
所以我们要重新定义一下人体功能 or the end of P-functioning theory of death.
或者由人体功能结束而定义的死亡 We're going to have to revise that theory.
我们得修改一下这个理论 We're going to have to refine it
我们需要完善它 to deal with the obvious fact
以更好解释 that you're not dead all the times when you're unconscious and not dreaming.
当你既无意识也没做梦时 你并没有死 But refining in just the right way
但是当我们完善这个理论时 is going to turn out to be
我们将会得出一个 a surprisingly not straightforward matter,
出人意料的不那么直白的结果 at least that's how it seems to me.
至少我这么觉得 At any rate, that's the question we'll turn to next time.
不管怎么说 我们下次再讨论这个问题