威尔森:Stephen 上一讲结尾 Wilson: Stephen, at the end of the last section
我们讲到了仆人(Servant) we were talking a bit about the Servants and
仆人如何跟以色列的命运息息相关 how they relate to the fate of Israel and
救赎代理人又都是谁 who the Agents of Redemption are
还有这种非常别扭 and this very uneasy relationship, or at least
至少可说是非常模糊的关系 unclear relationship between what God's role in
上帝与信众在救赎中 Redemption is and
各自所扮演的角色间的关系 what the role of the community is
整部以赛亚书中 已经出现了 We've looked at throughout the Book at a lot of these
不少神圣代理人 包括好几种仆人 divine agents, including various kinds of Servants
以色列本身 作为仆人的耶路撒冷城 Israel itself, Jerusalem City as the Servant
以及若干无名人士 various individuals unnamed
最著名的例子莫过于以赛亚书52-53 One of the most famous passages in the Book
中的一节 这里明显描写的是一位 is in Isaiah 52-53, which again seems to be talking very clearly
作为个人的仆人 about an individual Servant
那么这里的仆人 和我们之前见过的 How is this one different in some way from the others that
有何不同呢？ we've looked at so far?
库克:我觉得我们俩都没办法 Cook: Yeah, I don't think either one of us can
就以赛亚书52-53章中 第四首仆人之歌 pretend to give a definitive interpretation of this great
下定论 4th Servant Song in Isaiah 52&53
多年以来 很多人都读过这段文字 People have engaged this text, ruminated on it
反复去揣摩它 chewed on it for centuries
现在我们知道(听不清) 他们把情景 it was big (INAUDIBLE) we now know, they looked at it and
理解错了 也误用了 当然就… applied it to the wrong situation, certainly��
威尔森:新约中亦有大量记述 Wilson: The New Testament certainly is all over it
库克:是的 新约中亦有大量记述 Cook: Certainly the New Testament is all over it when
《使徒行传》中 有一名埃塞俄比亚宦官 the Ethiopian Eunuch was caught studying Scripture in the
被当场抓到在读《圣经》 他就读不懂这一章 Book of Acts, he's puzzling over this Chapter and is just
不知道这一章讲的究竟是不是过去发生的事？ wondering, is this about something that happened in the past?
还是在预言遥远的未来？ is it about something that was prophesized for the far future?
跟我又有什么关系？ How is it relevant to me?
这些问题即使到了今天也一样鲜活 These are all our live questions in terms of
跟我们对经文的理解有着很重要的关系 this passage's relevance for now, for us, in how do we understand��
我觉得本章中 将这段跟别的仆人之歌 I think one of the things that make this unique over against
区分开来的因素在于 other Servant Songs that are in this material is that
本章还展现了针对仆人的各种不同反应 there're all sorts of reactions to the Servants here
面对他 某些君王“哑口无言” There are Kings that are so startled by him that they "dropped their
明显现场还有一大批群众 mouth", there's obviously a great mass of people
很可能是属于流亡信众的群众 perhaps within the Exilic community itself that have totally
对他的误解很深 认为他受的苦 wrong impression of him, they think that he's suffering
是上帝下的审判 because God is judging him
另外还有一群规模小点的群众 and then there's this smaller group that makes this
做了一段很惊人的忏悔 大约自53:4开始 startling confession, perhaps starting at Verse ��, the smaller
这群人认为 该仆人完全是无辜的 group that recognizes that this individual is completely
他所遭受的非人的苦难 innocent, and the horrible suffering that he's bearing
是馈赠给他们的一件礼物 is a gift that he's making on their behalf that actually
改变了一切 至此 这群人跟仆人的关系 changes everything for them, and they come into this new
完全改变了 relationship with him
不少层面上看来 这个章节很特殊 So on a number of levels, it's very special!
威尔森:看来这个章节不仅仅讲的是仆人 Wilson: So that it appears now not simply as talk about
更是以信众的角度出发 this servant but from my community, that he experienced
去体验这位仆人的经历 what happened to this individual
于是就参杂了私人体验的因素 it has a kind of personal quality about it
整篇文字的调子就变了 and the whole tone of the thing shifts
这种第一人称复数的忏悔口吻 you don't usually get these first person plural confessions
以赛亚第二书中是非常少见的 in the Second Isaiah, this is very unusual
这里似乎讲述了 跟这位仆人相处的经历中 They seem to be talking about a transformative moment
一个转折性的瞬间 in their own experiences with this individual
我多少觉得 这节诗歌的目的 And in a way, I get the impression that this song is meant
是为了说明他们如何得出了这样的结论 to explain how they reached conclusions which we have in fact
此书之前的章节中就已经出现过的结论 already seen earlier in this literature
这节诗解释了 他们是如何得出 This is finally the explanation for how they got to
以赛亚第二书之前的章节已经表达过的 the understanding that is now expressed earlier in the
这种见解的 Second Isaiah
能不能这样理解呢？ Is that a fair way of thinking about it?
库克:我觉得很对 其实 Cook: I think that's exactly right. As a matter of fact
如果回头看早先第49章的仆人之歌 if you go back to the earlier Servant's Song in Chapter 49
第7节中群众的宣称 那里早就已经有了 the group has asserted, Verse VII, which is a foreshadowing
对后文的昭示53:7节说 in 53:7 they're talking about how Kings will just be
君王们看到仆人如何受苦 blown away by what they see when this servant suffers
也要为此而震惊 in this manner
所以 一旦这种惊人的 全新的 So, once the startling new realization of the
仆人受苦的力量成了 power of this Servant's ordeal
一旦仆人肉体的牺牲成了 this servant's bodily sacrifices is realized
整部以赛亚第二书传达的讯息就立即 I think it sheds new light on the entire message that
焕然一新了 Second Isaiah is conveying
我觉得你刚才谈到的 But I think you're absolutely right when you talked about
诗篇中的“我们”跟仆人的关系 非常有道理 this new relationship that the "we" of the poem has for the figure
“我们”一开始 自以为是 趾高气扬 they start out as the self-righteous stuck-up
将仆人视作虫豕 individuals who treat this Servant as a worm
卑下的贱人 despised scum of the earth
到最后却与他建立起了这种亲密的 and then they end up in this
相互的关系 intimate inter-connection with him
“他担当我们的忧患 背负我们的痛苦” "He borne our griefs he carried our sorrows."
这是一种“他与我们”的相互关系 走得越来越近 So it's he-us, he-us, they're coming closer into inter-relationship
于是突然间 他们意识到自己才是罪人 And as a result, suddenly they realize that they're the
请看第6节:“我们都如羊走迷” sinful ones for Verse VI: "we're all like strayed sheep"
各人偏行己路 we're all oriented on our own direction
固执己见 we're following our own lights
引路的再不是上帝的先验 上帝的言语 we're not oriented at all on God's Transcendence or God's Word
也非上帝的安排 or God's Plan
突然间 因这牺牲 一切都改变了 and suddenly that all changes through this sacrifice
威尔森:他们现在不仅仅对受苦的意义 Wilson: Not only did they understand in a different way now
有了全新的理解 也带着一种全新的眼光 the meaning of suffering, they obviously understand their own
来看待自己的受苦 suffering in a different way
这对整个信众团体理解自己 It becomes a key for the community
所经历的苦难 是非常关键的 to understand the trauma that it has been through
以赛亚第二书前面的章节 Now we have gotten some sense of that in the earlier parts
早已给了我们暗示 前文形容信众是 of Second Isaiah where they keep talking the community
“弱者” being "weak"
说将要实现锡安的救赎的人 the people who are supposed to be proclaiming
不能胜任此职 the redemption of Zion are not really up to the job, there's
所以说前文充斥着很多这样的怨言 been all this kind of complaint about
说不合适啊 how it's just not appropriate
我们能力不足啊 we can't do this
库克:“犹如野草” Cook: We're frail grass
威尔森:“犹如野草” 但突然间他们明白了 Wilson: We're frail grass, but suddenly they understand that
自己的这种不足感 脆弱感 their own feeling of inadequacy, their own feeling of weakness
也许都是受苦的一部分 而这受苦本身 may be part of the suffering that itself is going to become
将会扭转整个信众团体 transformative for the rest of not just the community
乃至整个以色列的命运 but for the rest of Israel in the first instance
前面章节中我们所读到的伏笔 And this is what we have been seeing probably playing out
也许意正在此 我早先说过 in some of the earlier material. I've already suggested that
第40章 锡安的双重苦难 in Chapter 40, the notion of the double suffering of Zion is
其实应该放到这里的意象下来理解 meant to be understood in the light of this figure, and it
我认为此处的手法在整部《圣经》中 seems to me probably what they're doing here is almost
可算是独一无二的 unique in the Scripture
这里信众在忏悔 他们是如何达成领悟的 the community is confessing how it came to the understanding
这本身也构成了领悟的一部分 which is now part of its own interpretation
早先的基督教教会 And certainly the earlier Christian Church
也非常推崇这个理念 比如门徒保罗 tapped into this big time that Apostle Paul, he has
就参与了耶稣的受苦 participated in the sufferings of Christ, and this is
于是 信仰团体中的信徒就都有义务 something that all disciples in all communities of faith are
去分享受苦 expected now to do
库克:仆人所遭受的 是一种非常特殊的 Cook: It's a peculiar type of spiritual suffering
精神受难 that he's undergoing
是一种坚定的 意志上的受难 It's a determined, willed type of suffering
一种纯洁无辜的受难 it's an innocent type of suffering
是一种以非暴力的方式将人置于险境的受难 it's the type of suffering that non-violently puts oneself in harm's way
甘愿为别人而受苦受难 willing to suffer blows and strikes for the sake of other people
这种受难在世上是很少见的 It's a type of suffering that's pretty rare in our world
威尔森:但《以赛亚书》的恼人之处也在于 Wilson: But the annoying thing about Isaiah is that
它认为 这应该为信众所效仿 he thinks now this is paradigmatic for the entire community
大家现在都有义务这么做 Everybody now is expected to do this
而信众似乎在这个意象中看到了 and community itself seems to recognize in this figure
自己一直以来所遭受的那种苦难 the kind of suffering that they have been undergoing
并将苦难看作自己应得的一部分 and now they understand it as part of their lot
作为上帝的子民 有义务代替全部信众 as part of the people of God to do this and to do it
去受难 on behalf of the entire community
借此以赛亚第二书 This is a very heavy theological agenda
向我们这个现代信众传达的 that Second Isaiah
是一个非常沉重的神学义务 is asking us as the most recent community
阅读它 就是期待我们去履行这种职责 Looking at this material is expecting us somehow to take on
库克:我觉得现代人要做到这点 Cook: I think the only way people today can even imagine
只能靠努力去领会上帝至高无上的权威 doing that is to capture something of God's towering awesomeness
我们所如此看重的 身边这个世俗 If the world around us, the mundane, banal reality
庸俗的世界 如果真是唯一的世界 that we take so seriously is the only world there is
那生活就是没有意义的 this life style isn't possible
必须努力重新发现上帝 you really have to have a new vision of God
让上帝的现实重塑我们的日常生活 and the way that God's reality renders our daily lives
让生活变得 in some sense
没有我们看重的那么重 a little bit less serious than we take them in order for
这样生活才能有意义 this to work itself out
威尔森:这里讲的是 Wilson: As long as this seems to deal with the question
信众团体在救赎中 of the role of the community ultimately
最终的角色问题 in redemption one sort or another
这段经文末尾 at very end of this section
还提到了另一个尚未考虑过的 it brings up another unresolved question that they
未解的问题 have not considered yet
列国在救赎中扮演着什么样的角色? and that is the role of the Nations in this
列国到底有没有参与…… Whether or not the Nations participated��now
以赛亚第二书之前已经提到过列国 we've already looked at the Nations in Second Isaiah
那里它们的角色不是很理想 and their role is not very pleasant
第34章里说列国受了上帝的大审判 They undergo a massive judgment in Chapter 34
这里 则揭露了救赎式受苦 but the Nations do come up again after this great
代人受过式的受苦的重要性 revelation of the importance of redemptive suffering
信众目睹了仆人的受难 于是多少就有义务去 or vicarious suffering that the group is expected now
参与这种受苦 somehow to participate in
那么 列国也出现了 having seen the example of this individual
那么以赛亚第二书末尾 So how does the fate of the Nations work at the end of
列国的命运又将如何呢? the section of the Second Isaiah?
库克:这段主要集中在55: 3-5节 Cook: Yeah, I think we're focusing in on Chapter 55: 3-5 essentially
有趣的是 这节提到了大卫王 and there, interestingly enough, we have reference to
而这部分文本里大卫是没有出场的 King David who has not appeared in this corpus
事实上以赛亚第二书 But as a matter of fact, Second Isaiah has been loath
很不愿提起大卫王 to talk about David
而是去关注非大卫分支的 developing sort of a different vision of the Remnant
另一部余剩之民 than the line of David
但这节里的余剩之民 却将大卫王 And yet, here are these people, theses Remnant taking on the
看作灯塔 当作精神典范 一面旗帜 role of David as a beacon or spiritual paradigm, or signal flag
列国皆要汇聚在他周围 that the Nation's sort of gathered or grouped around
请看第5节 In verse V
“看 你素不认识的国 你也必召来 "Behold this Remnant will call a Nation that you don't know
那素不认识的国 都必跑来归你 a Nation which knows you not will run to you
都因耶和华你的神 以色列的圣者 because this Majesty of the Holy One has been gifted
已经使你得到了荣耀” to the people"
威尔森:这段也与第40章的言语遥相呼应 Wilson: And this echoes the language again of Chapter 40
当时 当人民与上帝回归锡安的好消息 where the good news of the people's return and of God's
刚刚传来时 为了以色列 return to Zion is first said to be for the benefit of Israel
回锡安的人民 要给犹大的城邦报信说 the people are to go back to Zion has to give out the word
上帝已经回归了 to all the cities of Judah that God has returned
此处又更比第40章更进了一步 This takes one step further than that
邀列国前来 and invites all of the Nations to participate
参与救赎行为…… in the redemptive activity of��
库克:以赛亚第二书 Cook: The Second Isaiah
不仅仅是针对个别 is not just a message to one
被选中的团体的 particular chosen group
威尔森:不是的 Wilson: No
库克:以赛亚第二书的上帝境界更高 Cook: Second Isaiah's God is just bigger than that
这里所传达的讯息是面向全世界的 it's a universal message that reaches out
基督徒们常常认为旧约过于特殊神宠论 It's so often the Christians think of the Old Testament
过于狭窄 沙文主义 as so particularistic, so narrow and chauvinistic and
民族主义……这里可不像 nationalistic��that just doesn't fit
威尔森:这段的确不能这么形容 Wilson: That doesn't work in this passage
这里最终的受益者还是列国本身 the ultimate beneficiaries of this are the Nations themselves
而作为上帝救赎代理人的信徒团体 and the group itself which serves as God's redemptive agent
则对此负有责任 is responsible for that
请看第55章最末尾 and now in the very end of Chapter 55
又重现了第40章 we get another replay of Chapter 40 where
人民回归的场景 the people were to come back
上帝引领人民回到故土 回到锡安 God is leading them back to the land, to Zion
而这里 必将履行的上帝话语 but now the inevitably fulfilled word of God has to do
是关乎到列国的救赎的 with the Redemption of the Nations
“你们必欢欢喜喜而出来 平平安安蒙引导” "You'll go out in joy you'll be led back in peace"
这段又用到了整个宇宙同心协力 Again, the notion of the whole cosmos working
普天同庆的概念 together to facilitate this
“大山小山必在你们面前发声歌唱 "The mountains and hills before you will burst into song
田野的树木也都拍掌 all the trees of the field will clap their hands
松树长出 代替荆棘 instead of the thorns will come up the cypress
番石榴长出 代替蒺藜 instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle
这要为耶和华留名 and it shall be to the Lord as a memorial
作为永远的证据 as an everlasting sign"
曾给予锡安的承诺 the promise that has been
将作为永远的证据 given to Zion is going to be held as an everlasting sign
“不能剪除” which "shall not be cut off."