前面我们已经读过柏拉图的《会饮篇》 ... to shift our attention from Plato's Symposium
今天我们要来读他的另一篇对话 to the other great dialogue that Plato wrote
还是关于情爱主题 柏拉图的《费德鲁斯篇》 that's focused on erotic love, Plato's Phaedrus
费德鲁斯是对话中的人物之一 named after the character,
年轻又帅气的那种 the young man and a very handsome one of that,
苏格拉底在路上碰到了他 whom Socrates meets as they are both on their way
他们都要去城外散步 to take a walk outside of the city walls.
我们得知 费德鲁斯刚刚 It turns out, we find out, that Phaedrus has just
听过当时的一个大作家和演讲家的演讲 come from listening to one of the great writers and
那个人就是吕西亚斯 orators of the day, a man named Lysias.
吕西亚斯对费德鲁斯的演讲 And Phaedrus has been listening to Lysias
是关于情爱的 give a speech about erotic love.
具体来说 More precisely,
吕西亚斯对费德鲁斯的演讲是在说 Phaedrus has been listening to Lysias's speech that suggests
你这个年轻好看的男子 潜在的会被人爱的人 to a good-looking young man, a potential beloved,
你这样的人应该找的爱人 that he should give his erotic favors to someone who
可以是欣赏你的美的人 well, he appreciates the young man's beauty
但应该是不爱你的人 has not fallen in love with him.
吕西亚斯意思是 你应该把自己献给 You should give your erotic favor, says Lysias's speech,
不爱你的人 to a non-lover.
这么一个矛盾的结论的理由是什么呢 What could suggest such a paradoxical result?
吕西亚斯有更细的阐释 为什么最好 Well, Lysias tells us in great detail, why it would be better
避开爱你的人 to avoid someone who has fallen in love with you.
原因似乎是爱人往往是疯狂的 The problem it seems is that a lover is by nature a mad man,
是不会用脑子去思考的 someone who's out of his mind.
所以跟一个爱人相处 And so to put up with a lover is
就是跟一个举动疯狂的人相处 to put up with somebody who'll do all sorts of crazy things.
可以说 吕西亚斯的演讲 Lysias's speech is, to a large extent,
一一列举了一个人坠入爱河后 a cataloguing of all of the stupidities
所表现出的各种愚蠢行为 that people fall into when they fall in love.
特别地 他的演讲让我们看到 And more particularly, Lysias's speech lets us see
被爱之人最不明智的做法就是 how inconvenient it is for the beloved
让疯狂地爱人把自己当做一样物体来对待 to be treated as the object of somebody's crazy love.
吕西亚斯在演讲中特别说到 In particular, Lysias claims in his speech,
一个爱人 一个爱你的人 a lover, someone who's fallen in love with you,
对你有极强的占有欲 will be so possessive of you
会对你生活的其他方面产生负面影响 that he will have a bad effect on the rest of your life.
他会试图把你从亲朋好友身边带走 He'll try to take you away from your family and your friends,
因为你跟他们在一起让他很嫉妒 because he's jealous of your time.
尤其是因为他总是怀疑 And more particularly because he's paranoid that
你的亲朋好友会说他并不适合你 your family and friends might not think he's so great for you.
所以他不希望你跟你的父母 So he doesn't want you talking to your parents
或者跟你的朋友谈论 or talking to your friends about
他是不是适合你的爱人 whether he's a good lover for you.
他希望你所有的精力都集中在他身上 He wants all of your manual energies focused on him
不可自拔地觉得和他在一起才安全 in a kind of self-protective obsession.
吕西亚斯接着说 总之这是不利的 At least is bad, Lysias goes on to say.
你的爱人 那个爱上你的人 Your lover, the one who's fallen in love with you,
会让你变得比原来笨 will try to keep you more stupid
男子气概变得比原来少 and less manly than you otherwise would be.
你的爱人会希望你完全依赖于他 Your lover wants you to be completely dependent on him.
他想让你一直很娇小 And he wants to keep you cute.
尽管希腊语中没有"娇小"这个词 There's not really one Greek word for our word cute,
但这正是这里所说的问题 but that's clearly what part of the problem is,
正是吕西亚斯在谈论的 that Lysias is putting his finger on.
娇小是好事吗 Is it a good thing to be cute?
有人渴望成为娇小吗 Do any of you aspire to be cute?
恐怕没有 One hopes not.
娇小和傻之间的界限 The line between being cute and being stupid
是很模糊的 is a very thin one.
所以你的爱人之所以觉得你珍贵 So part of what makes you so precious to your lover,
那个爱你的人之所以珍惜你 to the one who's fallen in love with you,
是因为你的很多行为 are a set of behaviors that
在其他场合会让你尴尬 in other circumstances you'll be embarrassed by,
因为它们让你显得幼稚很傻 because that makes you seem light-headed, giggly.
可由于某些原因 你的爱人却喜欢你那样 But for some reason, your lover likes you to be that way.
在这个文化语境当中 Your lover makes you, in this context, this cultural context,
你的爱人会希望让这个年轻人 your lover wants to make of the young man
即他爱的年轻人女性化 who becomes his beloved effeminate,
让他柔弱 让他温顺 make him soft, make him a lisp,
不让他的身体暴露在太阳底下 keep his body from being in the sun
免得晒得太黑 and getting too sun tan,
不让他有发达的肌肉 from his muscles getting too strong.
吕西亚斯意思是说 跟一个爱你的人在一起 So Lysias suggests that part of the problem of taking up
的问题之一在于 with someone who falls in love with you
你的爱人会把你当作宠物来对待 is that your lover tends to want to keep you as a pet.
对待你的身体是如此 This is true physically,
他会越来越觉得你的身体很诱人 where your lover will tend to find your body more attractive,
只要你保持年轻和青春 in so far as your body stays youthful and adolescent.
对你的心灵同样如此 But it's also true about the beloved's mind.
你的爱人不会让你参与成人们的交谈 The lover will tend to keep you away from adult conversation
而是只让你接触各种 to make you all the more available to the sort of
无厘头的甜蜜对话 nonsensical sweet talk that
爱人的话逃不出这样的套路 lover's conversation seems so often to give itself over to.
所以如果你跟一个疯狂的人在一起 So if you attach yourself to someone who's out of his mind,
跟疯狂地爱你的人在一起 who's crazy in love with you,
那么你可能就会让这个人 you will have attached yourself to someone
使你变得糟糕 变得女性化 who'll make you worse and less manly
不管是身体还是心灵 both in body and in soul.
吕西亚斯说 话说回来 On the other hand, says Lysias,
你可以选择我作为情爱对象 if you give you sexual favors to me
我是不爱你的 I'm not in love with you,
尽管我觉得你很好看 I think you're pretty good-looking,
但我并不爱你 因为我的头脑很正常 but I'm not in love with you because I'm still in my right mind
我不会做那些疯狂的事 I won't do all these crazy things,
我不会像你身边的奴隶一般 I won't act like a slave around you
不会大半夜睡你家门外 and sleep outside your door at night
不会写歌歌颂你的家人 or write songs about your family,
一般希腊社会的爱人都会做这些事 both of which were traditional things that lovers did
以赢取所爱之人的芳心 to get the attention of the beloved in Greek society.
大家自己身上也有不少这样的傻事吧 You can supply your own examples of dopy things
想想那些追你的人为了赢得你注意 that people who would crush on you might do
可能会做的事吧 to get your attention nowadays.
可能还有人 Maybe some of them still
在写歌歌颂你和你的家人呢 write songs about you and your family.
可见吕西亚斯要说的是 不爱你的人 也就是我 So Lysias wants to say that the non-lover, that is me,
可能我更适合与你建立情爱关系 I'm a better person to establish an erotic relationship with.
你同样能获得很多快乐 You'll get a lot of same enjoyments you would
就像跟爱你的人在一起一样 that from somebody who's in crazy love with you.
但我却不会试图让你变得女性化 But I'm not gonna try to make you more effeminate.
不会试图让你变傻 I'm not gonna try to make you stupider.
我要做更好的安排 What I'm going to do in a kinda nicer arrangement
这让我们想起了 it reminds us very much of
《会饮篇》中包萨尼亚的演讲 Pausanias's speech in the Symposium
不爱你的人 理智的人要为你做的 what the non-lover, the rational guy is going to do for you
是介绍你进入成人社会 is kinda introduce you into adult society.
他会教育你 He'll educate you.
会让你变得更有教养 He'll help you become more cultured,
当然也更有社交经验 认识更多人 and of course, more connected, more networked.
可以说 他会带你涉足更重要的社会圈子 He'll, sort to speak, initiate you into important social circles.
不爱你的人关注的是你的心灵 So the non-lover's focus on your soul
不会让你做一个乖乖傻傻的宠物 doesn't ask for you to be a silly giggly pet,
而是做一个受人尊敬的年轻人 but rather to be a respectable young man
好让那个不爱你的人骄傲地将你作为 that the non-lover can present with some pride
他的弟子 他的门徒 as a kind of student, as a protégé.
在古希腊的文化背景下 这样的演讲很正常 Now this speech is very much at home in a cultural situation
因为人们对这种情爱关系是非常关注的 where there is a lot of anxiety about erotic love
我们已经在《会饮篇》中探讨过了 of the sort we've already explored in the Symposium,
很多人关注的是 a lot of anxiety that
情爱似乎意味着失去一些控制力 erotic love seems to involve some loss of control,
可能面临失去自我的危险 some dangerous riskiness of identity meltdown.
所以最好想办法避免这种危险 So better to be removed from all of that.
有一种办法可以避免 Now one way to avoid
在情爱中丧失自我 all of the dangers of erotic identity meltdown
那就是与情爱完全划清界限 is just to avoid erotic actions all together.
包萨尼亚完全有可能在他的演讲中说 Pausanias might have given a speech about love that said
你真的不应该再跟人做爱了 "really, you should just stop having sex
去接受教育吧 and just get an education."
但他没说这些 But of course he didn't say that.
相反他说从所爱之人那儿获得性满足是合理的 Pausanias justified getting sex from his beloved
因为他是所爱之人的师者 by claiming that he was his beloved's educator.
吕西亚斯这个不爱对方的人 Lysias, in his speech, as the non-lover,
在他的演讲中表达了类似的观点 tries much the same move,
但也碰到了类似的问题 but it suffers from much the same problem.
如果理性的力量那么强大 If rational control is all that great,
如果在情爱关系中失去自我那么可怕 and if erotic identity meltdown is all that bad,
那你为什么还要让这个漂亮的年轻人 why are you telling this beautiful young man
把你作为他的情爱对象呢 to give you sexual favors at all?
如果你只是关注他的心灵 If it's really all about his mind,
为什么要把你的手放他大腿上呢 why are you putting your hand on his thigh?
我们来设想一下这个戏剧化的场景 Now let's think of the dramatic situation,
也就是费德鲁斯把吕西亚斯的演讲 the conversational situation in which Phaedrus
说给苏格拉底听的这个场景 has made this speech available to Socrates.
苏格拉底正巧撞上了费德鲁斯 Socrates happens to run into Phaedrus
因为他们都在去城外散步的路上 as they are both on their way for a walk out in nature,
都要离开人群 out away from everybody.
所以那儿只有他俩 So they'll be alone there.
费德鲁斯给苏格拉底复述的演讲 Phaedrus offers Socrates a speech that
刚巧是这么一个意思 just so happens to make this claim:
哦 理智的人啊 Oh you rational one,
你可以享受一个年轻美男的情爱陪伴 you can enjoy the sexual favors of a beautiful young man
却无需丧失你理智的自我 without compromising your rational identity.
想象一下这是多么恰如其分的情景 Think of how convenient that situation is.
费德鲁斯并不需要 Phaedrus doesn't have to
直接对苏格拉底说 say to Socrates anything quite as direct as
苏格拉底 我可愿意做你的情伴呢 "Socrates, I would be interested in being your beloved."
相反 他通过第三方吕西亚斯说出了这话 Instead, he can put it all into a third person, Lysias.
并且 他所复述的这个演讲中 And indeed, he doesn't even put it into a speech
情伴并没有对理智的不爱他的人说 where a beloved is telling a rational non-lover
嘿 如果你做爱我的人就太好了 "Hey, it will be a great thing if you are my lover."
这中间拐了一个弯 He gives even one more twist
使表达的效果不那么直接 to allow for the indirection
就像那些打情骂俏的言语 that flirting behaviors so often assume.
他给苏格拉底复述的演讲 What he gives Socrates is a speech that
通过苏格拉底之口说出来也完全不为过 can be Socrates's speech.
完全可以是苏格拉底给费德鲁斯做的演讲 It can be a perfect speech for Socrates to give to Phaedrus.
想想这是多么了不起 And think how wonderful it is
苏格拉底逼着费德鲁斯复述的演讲 that Socrates forces Phaedrus to give the very speech
恰是费德鲁斯希望苏格拉底说给他听的 that Phaedrus would love to hear from Socrates.
否定又否定的本领 The levels of deniability
在情爱高手身上展露无遗 have been managed here with real erotic genius.
有机会你也可以试一试 Try it the next time
如果你恰巧跟你室友的恋人独处聊天 you're trying to chat up your roommate's date at an SYR.
这跟你直接用第一人称说话 或邀请 或诱惑 There's a displacement from direct first-person
之间存在一种错位 discourse or invitation or seduction,
这种错位中蕴含着一种通用的理论 a displacement into a general theory
让你知道爱是怎么回事 怎么做才好 about how love works or what would be good.
吕西亚斯的演讲是第一人称的 So Lysias's speech is a first-person speech.
但苏格拉底和费德鲁斯之间 But nobody in this dialogue
谁都不愿意说 is willing to take it over and say
没错 那正是我要说的 "Yeah, you know that's what I would say."
他们只是一味说 All they do is say
哇 还有人这么说 真是了得 "Boy that's a really neat thing for somebody to say."
费德鲁斯和苏格拉底之所以能够 So the mutual approach of Phaedrus and Socrates
相互嬉笑斗嘴完全是因为 in this erotic banter is made possible exactly
他们让自己跟那篇演讲保持了距离 by the distancing of the discourse itself
其中一个表现的完全不会那么说 by making it not something that I'm saying
另一个也同样 or that you're saying,
只不过有人那么说罢了 but something that one might say.
只不过有人说那样做也许不错 Somebody might say that this would be a good thing to do.
这就迫使对话的另一方 And you'll force your conversation partner
来对号入座了 to make the substitution and ask
我们要是那个变量X 那个某人 会是什么感觉呢 "Just how do we feel in that variable X, that someone?"
可能是你 也可能是我 Perhaps it's myself, perhaps it's you.
可见这里有点角色扮演的意思 So there's a certain kind of role playing that's going on here.
苏格拉底可不是缺心眼的家伙 Now Socrates is a very tricky guy
他嗅到了这里的情爱气息 and he can see the erotic situation here.
他发觉有人发出了邀请 He can see that something is on offer
但又不明说 without being fully acknowledged.
接着他对费德鲁斯说 And what he says to Phaedrus then is
费德鲁斯你知道吗 "Phaedrus you know,
吕西亚斯的这篇演讲可真是不赖呢 that speech of Lysias has some really good things about it,
但我觉得 but I don't think
它还可以更加理性 it was really quite as rationalized as it could be.
我觉得我能说的比这更好 I think I can give a better version of that speech."
实际上他不是这样说的 Actually he doesn't quite say that.
他说 我还真写不出 He says "Oh, I could never give a speech
能跟这媲美的演讲 that could compete with that one.
可那演讲也不无瑕疵 That one has some real flaws.
还可以更加有条理 It's really not as systematic as it could be.
不过我是个新手 But I'm just an amateur,
写不出那样的演讲 I could not possibly give a speech like that
没法去谈论爱理智的人这种事 about how you should fall in love with a rational guy."
费德鲁斯说 我可不吃你这一套 And Phaedrus says "Socrates, I'm not gonna play with you.
别忘了 这儿没别人 我可年轻力壮呢 Remember, we're alone here. I'm young and strong."
苏格拉底说 我认输还不行吗 Socrates says "I'm gonna have to give in to you."
他说 好吧 He says "OK, look,
我能完善吕西亚斯的这个演讲 I will give an even better version of Lysias's speech."
注意 他没说来听一下我的演讲 Notice, he's not saying "I'll give my own speech."
这还是一种间接 一种错位 It's still the indirection, it's still the displacement.
苏格拉底葫芦里卖的什么药呢 But what twist does he give it?
他之所以要这么说这么做是因为 He makes this brilliant move because, like,
通过间接的形式继续打情骂俏 in this indirection that strikes us flirting,
他就可以继续玩对号入座的游戏了 he has to keep up in the stakes about substituting
谁是那个变量 那个X 那个某人 into the variable, into the X, into the indefinite someone
谁在提出一种可能 一种情爱的可能性呢 who's proposed as a possibility, an erotic possibility.
接着苏格拉底说 So what Socrates does... he says
这个演讲的作者应该是 "this is the kind of speech that would be given
深爱着他美丽的爱人的 by a man who's desperately in love with a beautiful beloved,
却又要让自己显得很理智 but who presents himself as the rational,
能够自我控制的不爱对方的人 controlled non-lover."
苏格拉底说 So Socrates says
我能完善吕西亚斯的这个演讲 "I'm going to give an even better version of Lysias's speech.
这个演讲会更理性 更有条理 It's going to be more rational, more analytic.
不过费德鲁斯 真实的情况是 But the truth of the matter is, Phaedrus,
能够做这样一个演讲的人 a speaker who would give this kind of speech
以此赞美不爱对方的人 in praise of the non-lover
其实是暗中受到 would in fact be secretly motivated
一股强大情爱力量驱使的 by a powerful erotic passion.
演讲自身的理性 The rationality of the speech
不过是给情爱欲望穿上了理性的外衣 is nothing more than the rationalization of an erotic passion
演讲者只是不愿意公之于众罢了 that the speaker refuses to make fully public."
所以在苏格拉底改进的新版中 So that rationality in Socrates's new and improved,
也就是关于"不爱对方的人"的更理性的版本中 more rational version of Lysias's phrase, "the non-lover"...
演讲的理性只是狂热情爱的一个面具 The rationality of that speech is a mask for erotic madness.
演讲中体现出的控制力只是为了掩盖 The control of that speech is a vehicle
自我在情爱中的丧失和控制力的丧失 for erotic identity meltdown, for a loss of control.
就这样苏格拉底要演讲了 So Socrates says he'll give the speech.
但他设定的做演讲的人 But he'll give it as the speech of a lover
为了让他所爱之人能跟上他一步步的论证 who's making it easier for the beloved to accept his advances
把自己装成一个不爱对方的人 by presenting himself as a non-lover.
间接的层次又提升了一层 So the level of indirection has been upped.
但你也可以说这个面具是变薄了 But also you might say that the mask is worn much thinner.
费德鲁斯更容易透过这层面具 It's much easier for Phaedrus to reach through that mask
触及那个在演讲的苏格拉底 and to touch the speaker Socrates
他不光是在说着别人会说的话 not just as some person who might say this,
也是在说着他自己的话 but as the man who is saying it.
他们的对话可谓内容颇丰 Now a lot of things are going on in this dialogue it wants.
一些是关于情爱的构成的 Some of that are about the structure of erotic love.
也有很多是关于修辞的性质 A lot of them are also about the nature of rhetoric.
一个有感染力的演讲是怎样的 What makes a speech effective?
虚假和真实之间是什么关系 What's the relationship between plausibility and truth?
一系列这样的问题 A whole range of questions like that.
对话中有不少这样的问题 So those questions are at play here,
但我们讨论的重点不在这里 but I'm not gonna focus on them today.
分析一下 If you look at
苏格拉底对吕西亚斯演讲的加工 Socrates's re-working, re-stating of Lysias's speech,
有一个段落尤其醒目 one passage will jump out particularly.
吕西亚斯演讲的核心观点是 Remember that in Lysias's speech, the origami was that
那个不爱对方的人会希望所爱之人 the non-lover wants the beloved
更为女性化 更为青春 to be made effeminate and adolescent,
不管是心灵还是身体 both in soul and in body.
苏格拉底对此作了修改 In Socrates's re-formulation of that point,
他演讲中 那个戴着面具装作不爱对方的爱人 Socrates has the lover masquerading as a non-lover
从所爱之人身上除去的 say that the lover will deprive the beloved
不仅是宽泛的心智方面的东西 not just generally of something intellectual,
除去了他的成熟和成长 something mature or adult,
更是会除去 but rather that the lover will deprive
所爱之人的哲学头脑 the beloved of philosophy.
苏格拉底提出了这种忧虑 So Socrates makes this worry
即爱人想从你身上除去一些东西 that what a lover wants from you is something
让你退化 变得不成熟 that causes you to degenerate or to be immature.
苏格拉底具体指出 Socrates reformulates that by
这种东西就是哲学头脑 focusing specifically on philosophy.
所以苏格拉底演讲中发出的邀请就是 So that the offer in Socrates's speech is
你如果成了我的所爱之人 if you become my beloved
因为我理智 这当然是个伪装 because I'm so rational, which of course is a masquerade
如果你成为我的所爱之人 but if you become my beloved,
我会让你成为一个哲人 I will make of you a philosopher.
苏格拉底绝对没有说 Now Socrates never says,
费德鲁斯 我这么说的时候 "And right at this moment, Phaedrus,
其实想的是你和我 I'm thinking of you and me."
但费德拉斯却是这么想着 But surely Phaedrus was thinking of it.
苏格拉底由于戴上了面具 The mask that Socrates is putting on,
由于演讲是第三人称 the fact that he's giving this as a third-person speech,
反而让他可以以非常直接的方式 allows him to say something very very direct
论述为什么费德鲁斯应该跟随他 about why Phaedrus should be attracted to him.
柏拉图设计这一系列相互照应的把戏意图何在? What is Plato up to in this complicated play of mirrors
某种角度来看似乎是说 that somehow it seems that
为了满足情爱的欲望 in order to satisfy our erotic longings,
为了赢得所爱 让所爱之人接受 in order to fall in love and make it what? acceptable?
让情爱的对象回报我们 for the object of our erotic passion to reciprocate,
我们会被迫或受引诱 we're forced or we're tempted,
让自己表现的比实际更为理性 to present ourselves as more rational than we really are.
这个角度来看 《费德鲁斯篇》 So that this dialogue the Phaedrus in its way
跟《会饮篇》有相似之处 is doing something like what the Symposium was.
一开始给出一个框架 打出一个问号 It's starting out with a frame that puts a question mark
究竟哲学能不能忠实于真理 over whether philosophy can be truthful,
在情爱主题面前能不能摘下面具 can be unmasked when it comes to the topic of erotic love.
大家可能还注意到了一个有意思的事 Now another curious fact you'll remember is
苏格拉底说要他做演讲可以 that Socrates said that he would give this speech,
做更理性的演讲没问题 this rationalizing speech,
但不能以他的名义来做这个演讲 but that he couldn't give it, sort to speak, in his own name.
他演讲的时候 要把脑袋遮起来 So while he gives it, he says, I'm going to cover my head.
因此他演讲的时候 是把头盖起来的 So he's giving this whole speech with his head covered up.
这有点怪 This is a little weird.
我们设想一下这个场景 If you think about physically how they are arranged,
我们会想到 what you'll notice is that
他们是躺在河边山坡的草地上的 they're lying on a little hill on a river bank in the grass.
苏格拉底用什么盖着他的头呢 And what does Socrates have to cover his head up with?
也许是他的披风 Presumably his cloak.
大家心里可能嘀咕着 And one hardly dares to ask
把脑袋盖上了 那得有什么露出来了吧 when he covered his head, what did he uncover?
这问题引出了一个有意思的观点 But there's something very comical about this.
覆盖这个动作本身就是一次揭开的行为 The very action of covering is itself an action of uncovering.
回到中小学 Back in grade school
大家当然都过了那个阶段了 you're all over this by now I'm sure.
你们的情爱观念都已经 Your erotic lives have all become
非常成熟和清晰了 surely rationalized and transparent
但是回到中小学 如果我没记错的话 but back in grade school, if memory serves me,
判断一个人是不是喜欢另一个人的办法之一 one sure way to find out if somebody had a crush on
就是看那人是不是否认 somebody else was whether or not they denied it.
你喜欢那谁吗 Do you like so and so?
没有的事 这谁呀 No, not at all. Never heard of her.
情爱欲望框定了我们的行为 There's something in a very framework of erotic desire
让我们有一种掩盖的欲望 that promotes a certain desire to hide.
可是掩盖的特别形式 But the particular form that erotic hiding takes
恰恰揭示了情爱欲望 is a revelation of erotic desire.
就情爱而言 让你的心思人尽皆知 You're never more in the open, erotically speaking,
莫过于通过遮遮掩掩了 than when you're trying to hide.
这篇对话就是在讨论这么一个怪问题 So the dialogue is working with that oddity.
还有一个主题我希望大家也能注意 There's another theme that I want you to keep in mind,
能够在之后读《费德鲁斯篇》时装在脑子里 to have in mind as you read your way down into the Phaedrus
这出现在对话很前面 happens very early on.
苏格拉底说了一些关于自我认识的怪话 Socrates says something very odd about self-knowledge.
等我找一下这个段落 He says—this is—let me find the passage.
这是在228a 我们译本第2页末尾 This is at 228a—it's the bottom of P2 of this translation.
还是对话刚开始的时候 So this is very early on in the discussion.
苏格拉底得知费德鲁斯刚才同 Socrates has just found out that Phaedrus has been with
吕西亚斯这个伟大的演讲家和作家在一起 Lysias, this great orator and speech writer.
他说 我想听听那演讲 He says I'd love to hear that speech and
费德鲁斯说 你这是什么意思 苏格拉底 Phaedrus says "Oh, Socrates,
你难道指望像我这样浅薄的人 do you think that a mere dilettante like me
能背诵这篇文章 could recite from memory
而不会糟蹋它的作者? in a manner worthy of him a speech
吕西亚斯是当今最有才华的作家 that Lysias, the best of our writers,
为了写这篇文章花了好久呢 took such time and trouble to compose?
这远远超过了我的能力 Far from it
尽管我宁可拥有这样的才华 though actually I would rather be able to do that
而不要发财 than come into a large fortune!"
看看苏格拉底是怎么回应的 And notice how odd Socrates responses to this.
他说 哦 费德鲁斯 He says, "Oh, Phaedrus,
我要是不了解我的费德鲁斯 if I don't know my Phaedrus
那怕是忘了我自己是谁了吧 I must be forgetting who I am myself."
我要是不了解我的费德鲁斯 "If I don't know my Phaedrus
那怕是忘了我自己是谁了吧 I must be forgetting who I am myself."
要了解自己的一个前提 Could it really be a condition of self-knowledge
难道是了解别人? that you know somebody else?
如果你不了解一个 Could it be that by not knowing somebody else
和你走的很近的人 to whom you're close, with whom
或者用这个词的一部分含义 in some of the many sense of this word
一个和你很"亲密"的人 with whom you're intimate...
难道你不了解这样的一个人 could it be that somehow a lack of knowledge of that person
你就会忘了自己是谁? is a function of your forgetting who you are yourself?
苏格拉底并没有说 Socrates doesn't just say
如果我不了解你费德鲁斯 "if I don't know you Phaedrus,
那我就不了解我自己 I don't know myself."
这话已经够复杂的了 which itself would already be complicated.
他说的是 No, what he says is
要是我不了解你 我就忘了我自己了 "if I don't know you, I would have forgotten myself."
忘记和不了解还是有所不同的 Forgotten, that's different from merely not knowing.
他会忽略掉自己的某些方面 There'll be something about himself that he's overlooking,
他原本是知道的 在过去是很明显的 that he did know, that used to be present to him,
但是可以说 but that he, sort to speak
在这个时候却犯了糊涂了 can't retrieve into consciousness right now.
在对话的一开始 So right at the beginning of this dialogue,
就提出了这样一个问题 there's a question about
即这些演讲和演讲的过程 how these speeches, this speech-making
如何增进自我认识 will contribute to some sort of self-knowledge,
更确切地说是增进自我的记忆 or rather to some sort of self-remembering,
重新获得对自己的一种意识 to a re-covering of a sense of oneself.
是不是可以说情爱有一种力量 Could it be that part of the power of erotic love is that
在情爱当中 in erotic love,
我们能获得一种记忆 一种复原 一种回顾 we achieve a memory, a recovery, a recollection,
回忆起真正的我们是怎么样的 of something that we most truly are,
如果我们离开了所爱之人 something that we tend to forget
就会忘记那种东西 when we're not in the presence of our beloved.
这个思想的实验 That's the thought experiment
是隐藏在苏格拉底下一个演讲中的 that's behind the next speech that Socrates gives,
那个演讲中他没有把头遮起来 a speech that he gives with his head uncovered,
他把那段演讲作为一种忏悔 a speech that he gives as a kind of penance
以弥补他在这个理性演讲中 for the critique of erotic love and the lover
对性爱和爱人的品头论足 that he's given in his rationalizing speech.
我们下周一要讲的 What we'll look at on Monday then
就是这个位于《费德鲁斯篇》中间的演讲 is this great middle speech of the Phaedrus,
我们常把它叫做车夫的演讲 the so called charioteer speech
苏格拉底在演讲中阐述了 in which Socrates gives an account of
我们为何要让自己 why we should give ourselves over
面对在情爱中丧失自我的危险 to the dangers of erotic identity meltdown,
我们进入到那种情爱 give ourselves over to that meltdown
丧失了理性的自我 of an rationalizing identity
是为了找到更真实的自我 in order to find a truer identity,
而这种自我只能在 an identity we can only find
所爱之人的眼睛里找到 when we look in the eyes of our beloved.
下周见 See you then.