我们的课程要读柏拉图的两篇对话 We'll be reading two dialogues of Plato's,
《会饮篇》和《费德鲁斯篇》 the Symposium and the Phaedrus.
从某种角度而言 And in some sense,
这两个对话的中心主题都是性爱 the central topic of both of these dialogues is erotic love.
尽管我们称它们为"对话" Now, we call them dialogues,
但并不都只是 but they are not all
你一言我一语的社交对话 just the back and forth of quick conversation,
像戏剧所表现的那样 in a way, say, that play would be,
因为在这两篇对话中 because it turns out that in both of these dialogues,
两篇关于性爱的对话 the great erotic dialogues,
即《会饮篇》和《费德鲁斯篇》中 both in the Symposium and in the Phaedrus,
性爱的主题始终是跟 the question of erotic life is bound up with questions
修辞 演讲 口才 这些问题紧密相连的 about rhetoric, about formal speech-making, about eloquence.
因此究其原因 So for some reason,
也就是大家需要深入解读的原因 a reason that it's important for you to try to penetrate
是因为在柏拉图的头脑里 [is that] in Plato's own mind,
性爱的问题某种程度上是与语言相关的 the problems of erotic life are connected somehow
即正式的语言 to the status of formal language,
经过思考的语言 of artificial language,
意在说服人的语言 of language that's designed to produce persuasive effects.
因此尽管我们称《会饮篇》是对话 So while the Symposium is called a dialogue,
其主体并非 most of the Symposium consists not of
两个角色之间来来往往的俏皮话 witty back and forth between two characters,
而是由特定的角色做的 but rather of long,
较长且十分正式的 rather formal speeches in praise of love,
对情爱的赞美 by particular characters.
《会饮篇》这样的一种内在结构 Part of the structure of the Symposium then,
要求我们不断向演讲者提这样一个问题 requires us to always ask about the speaker of a given speech:
他这话有什么含义 "what's in it for him?"
人们谈论爱的时候 When people talk about love,
他们谈论的往往是自己 they mostly talk about themselves.
这一点《会饮篇》 And the Symposium is no different
同我们的生活没有两样 from our own lives in that respect.
因此我们今天读前两个人的发言时 So that is we listen to today the first two speakers,
即费德鲁斯和包萨尼亚的发言 the speeches of Phaedrus and Pausanias,
我们需要问自己 他们的话有什么含义 we want to ask ourselves: "what's in it for them?"
为何这些关于性爱的问题和可能性 "Why do the problems and the possibilities of erotic life
是以这样的方式 arrange themselves in this specific way
呈现在他们的话语中的呢 for these two particular men?"
柏拉图《会饮篇》的版本有很多 Now in the edition of Plato's Symposium
课程所用雪莱的译本正是由David O'Connor教授自己编辑 that we're using for this course, I've tried to fill in
在我们课程所选用版本中 我试图补充了一些 some of the biographical and historical background
人物的生平和历史背景 that Plato would have presupposed
这些对于当时的读者和听者而言 in his original readers and hearers.
当然是不言而喻的 So I hope that
因此我希望 you'll find the notes at the back of the translation
附在译文后面的注释 useful to you.
对大家有帮助 The translation itself was made in the early 1800s
这个翻译版本问世于19世纪初期 by one of the great poets of that period in English, Percy Shelly.
是由当时伟大的英国诗人珀西·雪莱翻译的 His wife Mary Shelley was the woman
他的妻子玛丽·雪莱 who wrote Frankenstein when she was all of nineteen.
十九岁出头就写出了小说《弗兰肯斯坦》 It's a rarity to have a translation of a master writer
一个伟大的作家翻译另一个伟大作家的作品 that itself is done by another master writer.
这种情况并不多见 There are many more contemporary translations
《会饮篇》更近代的译本 of Plato's Symposium
还有很多 the reasons not far to seek itself:
原因很简单 a lot of people still buy the Symposium and still read it.
那就是买它来读的人还很多 But for my money, which is to say, for your money,
但我更愿意把我的钱也就是大家的钱 I prefer this older translation
花在这个年代更久远的译本上 even though it's now close to two hundred years old,
尽管它距今快两百年了 for the simple reason that Shelly himself seems to me
原因很简单 一方面我认为雪莱自己 to have understood Plato at a very deep level,
对柏拉图有着非常深刻的理解 and in part that's because Shelly's own mastery of English
另一方面雪莱的英语造诣非常高 allowed him to appreciate and reproduce
使他能够对柏拉图希腊语原作中的 certain aspects of Plato's Greek,
一些部分作出正确理解并再创造 that even a very accurate contemporary academic translation
这些部分 就算是现在一个非常精确的译本 is likely to miss.
也有可能遗漏 So I hope that the supporting material in this edition,
因此我希望我们这个版本中的补充材料 the notes and the biographical material
包括注释以及生平介绍 I hope that that's useful to you
能够对大家 as you continue to read the Symposium.
今后的阅读有所助益 One of the things that Shelly does in his translation
雪莱在译本中做了一件 that we probably wouldn't do today
今天的译者不一定会去做的事 is to translate the names of the Greek gods and goddesses
即将希腊诸神的名字 into their Roman equivalence.
译成了对应的罗马名称 So to take the most important case:
最显著的一个例子就是 the Greek goddess of love and of sexuality is Aphrodite.
希腊神话中掌管爱情和性的女神阿佛洛狄忒 This is the name that then Shelly will translate as Venus.
雪莱将这个名称译成了维纳斯 Pausanias's speech will be built around
包萨尼亚的发言就是围绕 a certain account of the nature of Aphrodite
阿佛洛狄忒的性格展开的 and we'll get to that in a little bit.
我们稍后还会谈到 One of the great philosophers of the 20th century,
二十世纪的一个伟大哲学家 died in the 1950s,
上世纪50年代去世 was a more or less crazy Austrian,
一个多少有些疯狂的奥地利人 which we haven't filled yet in our department right now,
我们系目前还没有关于他的专门课程 but this one was Ludwig Wittgenstein.
这人就是路德维希·维特根斯坦 One of the many interesting things Wittgenstein said was that
他说过的一句名言是 "the limits of my language are the limits of my world."
语言限制一个人认识世界的范围 For us, the language we have to talk about erotic life
对我们来说 用于描述性爱的语言 is contemporary English.
就是现代英语 There's much that one can doubt about this.
对此 我们就可以提出很多质疑 The Greek word for what we call sexual intercourse was
我们所谓的性行为在希腊语中对应的词汇 based on Aphrodite's name.
来自于女神阿佛洛狄忒的名字 It's just a neuter plural based on this name:
不过是由此衍生出来的一个中性复数词汇 the aphrodisia which means the things of Aphrodite.
Aphrodisia 含义是"阿佛洛狄忒的所属之物" This is the typical Greek word to describe sexual pleasure,
这是希腊语中描写性快感常用的词 and more particularly, that most intensive sexual pleasures
特别是用于描述那种最为强烈的性快感 in what we call sexual intercourse.
即我们所说的性交 Now think of the difference
大家来想象这样两种语言的区别 between living in a language where the name for sex
一种语言中我们使用的关于性的词汇 comes from the goddess of beauty
来自于掌管美的女神 and where the name for it comes from
另一种语言中这些词汇 the same realm of your language as words
跟阑尾切除术和牙根管这样的词汇 like appendectomy or root-canal.
属于同一个领域 Sexual intercourse is a medical word.
性交成了一个医学词汇 It doesn't sound like something
听起来不像是 anybody would particularly want to go do.
人人都特别愿意去接触的 Would you like to have sexual intercourse this afternoon?
今天下午我们来性交怎样? Aha... I've got a dentist appointment.
哦 啊 我约了看牙医了 The word, the phrase "sexual intercourse"
性交这个词 entered the English language in the late 1700s.
进入英语是在18世纪后期 Now I'm pretty sure the act entered
这种行为进入英语国度 the English community earlier.
无疑早得多 Its first appearance is
这个词第一次出现是在 in a famous treatise on population by Malthus.
马尔萨斯的一部关于人口的著作中 He's the first person who used the phrase "sexual intercourse"
他是第一个使用这个词的人 to refer to nuptial delights, to the conjugal embrace
用一些古时的说法 to use a few other old-fashioned sounding descriptions.
他所指代的就是"洞房喜事""连理抱对"之事 The word, the phrase "sexual intercourse"
接着 这个词 then entered our language through
通过公共卫生的语境 the discourse of public health.
进入到我们的语言 And more particularly, it entered our language
这种传播特别是出现在 when human sexuality came under the
人类的性行为成为 surveillance of the authorities.
政府监控的对象之后 Sexual intercourse is the way
我们就是这样 that we describe human sexuality
来描述人类性行为的 when we're thinking about it as a problem of public health,
似乎就是把它当成了一个公共卫生的问题 in a way that, say, fluoridated water is,
某种程度上 就像谈论加氟水的感觉一样 or the way that make him sure
或是自信地谈论 that waste water and sewage water are separate in our city.
我们城市中的废水和污水是分开的 At the same time that a lot of human ingenuity
当人们将他们的智慧 was being devoted to those kinds of questions,
分配到这些问题上的同时 human ingenuities started to invent a vocabulary,
他们也开始制造出一类词汇 a medicalized vocabulary to think about human sexuality.
即用于描述性的医学词汇 Much of the terminology that we think of as completely natural
我们所认为的很多理所应当的词汇 is in fact a very recent invention.
其实历史并不长 The word itself "sex"
性这个词本身 to refer to what we now call sexual activity
被使用在我们现在所说的性行为中 is barely over 200... over a hundred years old.
也不过只有百来年的时间 The English language
当然这个词 had the word "sex" of course for a long time
存在在英语中的历史要长的多 that referred to the distinction between male and female.
但那是用于区别男性和女性的 But the use of it to refer to
而用它来指代 sexual activity, to sexual intercourse,
性行为或是性交 to the wonderful things of Aphrodite,
这些属于阿佛洛狄忒的美事 only happened around 1880 or so.
是在19世纪80年代前后才出现的 So the language that immediately comes to us is a language
因此我们所接触到的关于性的语言 that's about controlling a danger to public health.
是将其看作威胁公共卫生而需要控制的东西 It's not a language primarily designed
这种语言一开始就不是用来 to express the celebration of something sacred.
歌颂一种神圣的东西 Think of the very phrase "sexually active,"
想想有性欲这个词 which is not a very old phrase,
它的历史并不久 say phrase and activity break apart here.
可见词汇跟行为本身是割裂的 To be sexually-active
性欲的激起 seems to be modeled on being radioactive.
跟化学物质被激活似乎是同质的 Sort of it amid particles or something.
突然进入到了一片粒子之中 Part of what Plato is trying to do in his dialogue
柏拉图在他的对话中试图要做到的一点 is to work through not our desires
不是要讨论我们 to control, to neutralize the power of sexuality,
控制或减淡性欲的愿望 but to neutralize some simul kinds of moves
而是要减淡一种他所处的时空中的 that were available in his own place and time.
一些类似的欲望 So one of the ways to make Plato useful to yourself,
所以想要让柏拉图对你有所帮助 to make Plato useful to ourselves
对我们大家有帮助 is to see how Plato's raising the question
就要思考柏拉图是怎样提出 of the control ability of sexuality, of erotic life,
对性欲和性爱生活的控制能力这个问题的 and then to ask ourselves
接着再问 how Plato's anxieties or problems about this
柏拉图就此的担忧和疑虑 are relevant to our own place and time.
怎样和我们自己的处所和时代相关联 Now of course for us, the Greek name of this goddess
大家都知道 这个掌管美和性的女神的 of beauty and sexuality, Aphrodite,
希腊名字阿佛洛狄忒 has been pretty much ruined by having been made into a drug,
衍生出的Aphrodisiac一词被赋予了春药的意思 being medicalized, in the word "Aphrodisiac."
这种医学化把这个词糟践得体无完肤了 There's an old adjective "aphrodisial."
其实以前就有一个相关的形容词aphrodisial But I doubt that many of us have many occasions to use it.
但我想大家并没有什么机会使用它 Now you might think that
大家也许会想 Shelley is giving us a possibility here.
雪莱给我们提供了另一种可能 If we can't use Aphrodite's name,
既然我们不能用阿佛洛狄忒的名字 maybe we could use Venus's name:
那就用它的希腊名吧 Venereal
(性欲的 性交的) Come my love. Let us enjoy our venereal pleasures.
来宝贝 我们来享用性欲之欢吧 Once again, until the late 1800s,
同样 在19世纪后期之前 the word venereal was usable as an adjective
这个词还被用作一个普通形容词 that represented the things of Venus.
表示属于维纳斯的东西 I take it it probably wouldn't work very well now.
我想现在恐怕没法这样用了 And now, take a look, when you're getting
当你收到情人节 your Valentine's Day cards.
贺卡的时候注意了 Check through and see, if anywhere,
睁大眼睛找找 about things venereal.
能不能找到venereal (性交的)的东西 The steady pressure on the English language
逐步施加在英语这种语言上的压力 is a steady pressure on our erotic world.
也逐渐对我们的性爱生活造成了压力 The language that we have to describe our erotic lives,
我们能够用来描述性爱生活的语言 has a lot to do with what we think is possible or likely
与我们自己对可能的性爱生活的认识 in our erotic life.
有很大关系 Plato in the Symposium has every speaker
在《会饮篇》中 柏拉图让每个演讲者 deploy a mythological language about erotic life,
使用一种跟性爱生活相关的神话寓言 a language full of heroes, and gods and goddesses,
这种语言会不断提到英雄和诸神 because as much as all the speakers disagree with each other,
因为尽管所有人都相互抬杠 they do agree on one thing,
但他们有一点共识 that sex has about it something sacred,
即性是有些神圣色彩的 some kind of breaking open of the regular human world,
是打破这个普通的人类世界 the mundane human world into something more divine.
世俗的人类世界而进入更为神圣的地方 Now the Greeks didn't think of their gods primarily as nice
当然希腊人根子上并不觉得诸神是完美的 somehow we've gotten in that mood:
我们倒是有这样的想法 Jesus, nicest man who ever live.
主啊 至善至美之人 Now that that view of our God
但事实上这种对上帝的认识 doesn't actually survive a moment's reading of the gospels
读一点新约就知道经不起推敲 Jesus was a lot of things,
耶稣是个复杂的存在 but the first thing that sprang to people's lips
但人们读到的关于他的第一点 were actually Adam's words: "Oh, what a sweet heart."
是亚当的话 "哦 好一颗甜心" There was something too edgy, too striking,
这似乎显得太放肆太过分了 too challenging about him,
对他而言太不可能了 for that to be the case.
仿佛事实不可能如此 Similarly the Greeks didn't expect their gods to be nice.
希腊人也一样并不指望他们的神完美无瑕 They didn't expect to be comforted by the aphrodisia,
他们不指望从性欲中得到安慰 by the things of Aphrodite.
即从阿佛洛狄忒所属之物中得到安慰 They expected to be exhilarated by them.
他们是指望着从中获取兴奋 They expected to be cast into ecstasy by them.
期望进入一种巅峰狂喜的状态 But the word ecstasy, a word that we'll see,
但我们稍后也会看到 ecstasy (狂喜)这个词 not only in the Symposium, but even more in the Phaedrus.
《会饮篇》中会看到 《菲德鲁斯篇》中有更多 The word "ecstasy" comes from the Greek words,
ecstasy (狂喜)这个词是从希腊语引入的 the Greek word "ec-", which means "out".
希腊语中ec-表示出去 And the "-stacy" part means to stand, to stand out,
-stasy意思是直立 突显 to break out of yourself, to be broken open and taken away.
冲破自己 被击碎 被带走 And as exciting as that may be, it's not nice,
这尽管叫人兴奋 但未必美好 and sometimes it feels like a terrible threat to one's identity.
甚至让人感到这是对自我身份的强大威胁 So the issue of control,
因此控制这个话题 a control that in ancient Greece as much as in our own day
不管是在古希腊还是在我们的时代 was often figured by medicalization of the realm of sexuality,
这种控制通常体现为对性的医学化 which, by the way, is also a very recent word.
当然这样的词都是很近代的事情 The medicalization of sexuality
对性的医学化 is one of the main modes of control,
是一种控制的方式 of taking a stand against ecstasy.
一种对抗狂喜的姿态 It turns out that one of the main instruments intellectually
我们可以发现有一种思想武器 of maintaining self-control is philosophy.
可以用于保持自我控制 那就是哲学 So that Plato's Symposium is trying to
因此柏拉图的《会饮篇》就是试图 work through a way for philosophy
找到这样一种哲学的途径 not merely to dominate the erotic experience,
不单纯为了掌控性爱体验 the erotic aspect of life,
即生活中性爱的那一部分 but rather to be a vehicle of it.
更是为了找到性爱体验的一种工具 But philosophy comes onto stage as
但哲学的出现是 a competitor within erotic life,
作为对性爱生活的挑战者 not as a support for it or compliment to it.
而非支持者或是恭维者 Let me turn my attention then
让我们来看 to some specific passages in the Symposium
《会饮篇》中的一些具体的段落 to point out the way that Plato
看看柏拉图是怎样 starts to introduce some of these issues to us.
开始向我们引入这些话题的 The symposium starts out, before we get to the banquet
《会饮篇》并非一开始就描写酒会上 where the speeches on love take place,
客人们发表关于爱的言论 with a little frame dialogue.
而是以一个背景对话开始 I'll have to skip over this
我会跳过这部分 although there are a lot of things already going on,
尽管这里已经讲了不少事情 the little conversation between Apollodorus
这段对话发生在阿波罗多罗斯 and a non-named companion,
和一个姓名不详的人之间 where the non-named companion
这个姓名不详的人 comes to Apollodorus and says,
找到阿波罗多罗斯问说 "Apollodorus, Apollodorus, we heard you know the story about
阿波罗多罗斯 听说你知道 when Socrates and Alcibiades were
苏格拉底和亚西比德 at the banquet of Agathon."
在阿伽通家酒会上发生的事 And it turns out the Apollodorus
我们知道阿波罗多罗斯几天前 was asked the very same question,
刚被人问及同样的问题 to tell the very same story just a couple of days before.
讲述同样的故事 So something has happened.
可见是发生了一些事的 Suddenly, the relationship between Socrates and Alcibiades
苏格拉底和亚西比德两人间的关系 is a great public interest.
瞬间成了公众的焦点 The most likely thing here is that
可能性较大的情况是 this outer frame dialogue cast the
阿波罗多罗斯的这段 conversation with Apollodorus
酒会外的背景对话 as happening after Socrates has been indicted in 399.
发生在399年苏格拉底遭起诉之后 That's why everybody is interested in this old story,
所以人人都对这段旧事充满兴趣 a story that's more than 15 years old at this point,
当时这件事已经过去15年了 because Socrates's relationship to Alcibiades was no small part
因为苏格拉底与亚西比德的关系 of why in the end he was indicted and executed.
跟他最后遭起诉和刑罚有很大关系 Socrates is going off to Agathon's house for a party.
苏格拉底要去阿伽通家参加酒会 Indeed, the word "symposium",
会饮(symposium)这个词中 the "sym-" means together and the "-posium" means drinking.
sym-意思是一起 –posium意思是喝酒 It doesn't mean a banquet, it means a drinking party.
所以这个词并不是指一个宴会 而是个酒会 That's primarily what it is.
源头上来讲就是这个意思 So Socrates very unusually is getting all fancied up
苏格拉底不同寻常地穿戴整齐 to go to this party when Aristodemus runs into him.
准备去酒会 却撞上了阿里斯托德穆斯 And Socrates says, "Hey, why don't you come along with me?"
苏格拉底说 嘿 跟我一块儿去吧 Aristodemus says, "well, I wasn't really invited."
阿里斯托德穆斯说 问题是他们没邀请我 Socrates says, "Ohoo, don't worry about that!"
苏格拉底说 哦 没事没事 And so they get up to the house
他们就一起去了 and Aristodemus comes to the door and he's gonna wait
阿里斯托德穆斯先到了 就等苏格拉底 cuz Socrates is lagging off on the neighbor's porch,
因为苏格拉底还在隔壁家的门廊那儿 thinking about something.
若有所思 But one of the servants comes up and brings him in,
结果一个仆人出门把他带了进去 so here he is.
阿里斯托德穆斯就这么进来了 Isn't this a rather embarrassing situation: he wasn't invited.
场景非常尴尬 他不请自来啊 But Agathon though, is a very cultivated man.
但阿伽通是个修养很深的人 And notice how well he handles this.
我们来看看他是怎么处理的 Aristodemus shows up.
见阿里斯托德穆斯进来了 Agathon says, "Oh, Aristodemus!
阿伽通说 哦 阿里斯托德穆斯 Well you're just in time for dinner.
来 正要开饭哪 I was looking for you yesterday.
我昨天就盼着你来 Couldn't find yet anywhere. I'm glad you showed up."
结果怎么都找不到你 你来了真太好了 Now it's always possible he was looking for him,
他当然确实有可能在等他 but it seems more likely that
但更有可能的是 this is a part of the elegance of Agathon
这不过是他语言艺术的一种体现 of knowing what to do when an unexpected person,
他知道怎么应对一个不请自来 in embarrassment shows up on your step
很尴尬地出现在自己门口的人 when you're about there to have dinner.
而你正要吃饭 The thing you do is to say
你要做的只是说 "Ah, I'd wanted to have you here all along."
啊 我一直盼着你来呢 But Socrates is still
但此时的苏格拉底 sitting on the neighbor's porch or standing on it,
还是坐在隔壁家的门廊下 也可能是站着 thinking about something
思考着问题 we never find out exactly what he is thinking about.
我们并不知道他当时在想什么 But you'll notice that when they come in,
大家会发现 在他们进来时 Agathon has things arranged about
阿伽通已经安排好了 where people are going to recline.
每个人坐的位置 At a Greek drinking party, you reclined on couches,
在希腊的酒会上 人们是躺在床榻上的 two people to a couch.
两人一张床榻 I have a footnote
我在大家的书中作了脚注 where I describe the mechanics of the way that it worked.
介绍了他们的酒会习俗 Agathon has arranged things so that when Socrates comes in,
阿伽通已经把事情安排妥当 苏格拉底进来后 there's only one place for Socrates to sit down,
只有一个空位给他坐 on Agathon's couch.
那就是和阿伽通共用一个床榻 So there's a certain amount of elegant artifice
可见阿伽通在此有意 that Agathon is involved with here.
做了一些巧妙的安排 He sees to it that he's the guy who's close to Socrates.
他要让自己成为那个坐在苏格拉底旁边的人 When Socrates comes in,
苏格拉底进来后 there's some banter about Agathon's wisdom.
阿伽通的这种智慧以诙谐的方式呈现 Agathon of course was a very great writer of tragedies.
他当然是一个伟大的悲剧作家 And he had just won first prize in a tragedy competition
当时他刚获得一个悲剧比赛的第一名 and he was a very young man
一个30或31岁的人 to have reached that level of accomplishment,
就取得这样的成就 30, 31 years old at the time.
算是很年轻的 And so Socrates...
苏格拉底进来了 well, when he comes in, Agathon says,
他进来后 阿伽通说 "Socrates, come right down on my couch
苏格拉底 来我的床榻上 because I hear that by being close to somebody who's wise,
我听说跟有智慧的人坐一块 his wisdom can rub off on me."
那人的智慧能传递到自己身上 There's clearly a kinda
他的话里明显有一种 sexual under-text to what Agathon's saying.
潜藏着的性暗示 And Socrates plays along. Socrates says,
苏格拉底接过他的话说 "Ah, Agathon, it'll be great if you can get wisdom
啊 阿伽通 要是智慧的传递 in a way that you can make wine run from one cup to another
就跟酒能通过一根棉线从一个杯子流进另一个 by putting a woolen thread between them."
那真是很了不起 It's only much later that
在比较后面的地方 that image of wisdom coming through physical contact,
智慧通过身体接触 and indeed sexual contact,
确切来说通过性接触进行传递这个意象 will become thematic in the dialogue.
会成为对话的主题 It's in the speech of Alcibiades at the end
主要是亚西比德在结尾部分的发言中 which we'll see later in the semester.
我们在学期后半程会读到 So Agathon and Socrates are playing with each other.
阿伽通和苏格拉底就这么相互调侃 Now it turns out that the night before
而就在前一天晚上 was the big victory party for Agathon.
阿伽通刚办完一个庆祝派对 And as would be natural for ancient Greeks,
在这样的场合 古希腊人 sure that doesn't go on anymore,
不像现在的人 the people at the party tended to drink too much.
常常会喝的醍醐灌顶 So they are basically all hung over, except for Socrates
所以他们基本上都败下阵来了 除了苏格拉底 who actually wasn't at the party the previous night,
他前一天晚上没参加派对 but who also it seems no matter how much he drinks
但好像他不管喝多少 he never seems drunk, a great convenience for a philosopher.
也不会醉 这对哲学家而言是个很大的好处 So we have this conversation about
因此我们就听到了大家讨论 how they're going to run the drinking part of the party.
今天晚上喝多少的问题 They've had the meal, now they are going to start the drinking.
他们已经吃过东西了 现在要开始喝了 What are they gonna do?
怎么办呢? Well, they are going to do two things.
他们要做的是两件事 First it turns out that
首先 because they all drank so much the other night,
由于他们前一晚上都喝的太多 one of the participants Pausanias suggests that
宾客包萨尼亚提议说 maybe we could not drink so much tonight
我们今晚就别多喝了 this is at 176a
这是在书上的176a as he puts it in Shelly's translation,
雪莱的译文是这样说的 "I am not very well from the wine we drank last night
昨晚喝太多了 我不太舒服 and I have some need of intermission.
今晚得缓一缓 I suspect that most of you are in the same condition,
我想大多数人也差不多 for you were here yesterday.
因为你们昨晚也都在 Now consider how we shall
现在我们来说说 drink most easily and comfortably."
怎么喝的又轻松又舒服 And then Aristophanes replies.
接着说话的是阿里斯托芬 Now, Aristophanes is the other great artist who's at this party,
阿里斯托芬是酒会上的又一个伟大作家 he was the greatest comic dramatist of the age.
他是当时伟大的喜剧作家 So you've got the greatest writer of tragedies Agathon there
一边是伟大的悲剧作家阿伽通 and you've got the greatest writer of comedies.
一边是伟大的喜剧作家 Now it turns out that this combination of theater
我们会发现戏剧和酒两者的出现 and intoxication of wine is very important.
是非常重要的 The way that it becomes important
之所以重要 is that it represents another god,
是因为他们代表了另外一个神 the god that the Greeks called Dionysus
即希腊人口中的狄俄尼索斯神 and that the Romans called Bacchus
罗马人口中的巴克斯神 where we get the word "bacchanal."
bacchanal(狂欢作乐的)一词就由此而来 So we've got a representation of another god here,
这回我们面前的这个神 not just of Aphrodite, of the erotic god,
不是阿佛洛狄忒那样的性爱之神 but of the god of intoxication, and also the god of theater.
而是一个酒神 同时也是一个掌管戏剧的神 The two theater men, Aristophanes and Agathon,
阿里斯托芬和阿伽通这两个戏剧家 it turns out, are also the two biggest drinkers,
我们发现也恰是最能喝的两个人 because as it goes on, after Aristophanes says,
因为在后来 阿里斯托芬说 "Oh yeah, I don't wanna drink too much."
是啊 我可不想喝太多 He says... In Shelly's translation he says,
在雪莱的译文中 他这样说 "I was one of those who were drenched last night."
昨天我可是被灌得最多的人之一 What it says in Greek is
这话在希腊语里就是说 "I was one of those who was really baptized last night."
我昨天可是被洗礼的人之一 It's where we get our word "baptism."
baptism(洗礼)一词就从这里衍生而来 So after Aristophanes says that,
阿里斯托芬说完这话后 then Eryximachus, who's the doctor,
医生厄律克西马库接着说话 he's the representative of the medical point of view,
他代表的是医学的视角 the controlling point of view,
控制的视角 the be-wary-about-intoxication point of view.
"小心酒精"的视角 Eryximachus says, "Well, let me ask Agathon here."
他说 我来问问阿伽通吧 And Agathon says "Oh, God, no.
阿伽通的回答是 哦 天哪 算了吧 There's no way I could drink tonight. I'm completely used up."
今晚我是绝对喝不了了 完全不胜酒力 These two then are described as the invincible drinkers.
接着作者就写到这两个人的酒量是海量级的 So somehow, the god Dionysus, or Bacchus,
也正如此 狄俄尼索斯神 who's the god of both the intoxication of wine,
掌管酒和醉酒之意的神 but also the god of the theater,
当然也是掌管戏剧的神 is being controlled or put to the side.
受到了控制 被放到了一边 So the speeches about erotic love that are going to be given
可见这天晚上要出现的关于性爱的演讲 this night are taking place under a kind of shadow,
被蒙上了一层阴影 a shadow of weakness,
这层阴影就是一种脆弱 or at least a shadow of unreadiness for intoxication.
或是说对醉酒没有做好准备 The soar of ecstasy, the stepping out of oneself
上升至狂喜 冲破自己 that goes along with Bacchus, with Dionysus,
与酒神相伴左右 is something that these speakers are not ready for.
这一点是众宾客还没准备好的 Now, immediately after they make the decision
他们刚做出这个决定 to exclude what's Bacchic, what's Dionysian,
即将酒神相关的东西排除在外 they make another fateful decision to exclude something.
他们又决定排除另外一种东西 This is at 176e. It's in the middle of P9 in this translation.
请看176e 在第9页的中间 The doctor Eryximachus
医生厄律克西马库 who's kinda taking over, controlling things.
他可以说主持着这场酒会 He says, "Since, then, it is decided that
他说 那我们就定了 no one shall be compelled to drink more than he pleases,
喝多少各人随意 不得强劝 I think that we may as well send away the flute-player
那我想我们让那个吹箫女也走吧 to play to herself;
她可以吹给自己听 or, if she likes, to the women within.
如果她愿意 也可以吹给院里的女人听 Let us devote the present occasion
我们就把今天的时光 to conversation between ourselves."
完全作为我们内部的交谈吧 First we have enacted the exclusion of wine,
先是把酒排除在外 and of that whole realm of human experience
这也就把狂喜和醉酒这样的人类体验 that goes with ecstasy and intoxication,
完全排除在外了 the realm of which Dionysus is the patron god,
也就是狄俄尼索斯掌管的领域 now we have enacted the exclusion of something,
这会儿又排除了另外一种东西 that is, that was musical and female,
即音乐和女性 these men, and of course they are all men,
这些男人 他们当然都是男人 claim that they are going to replace the pleasures
声称他们将抛去女性和音乐 of effeminizing music
带来的乐趣 with the pleasures of manly conversation.
取而代之的是男性的交谈 Rational, reasoned conversation requires them to exclude
理性的对话要求他们排除 something that they are coding as feminine.
他们所认为的女性的成分 There's something softening about music
音乐当中有种柔弱的东西 that they don't want a part of.
他们也不想浸润在音乐中 It's going to be simply a men's night.
这个晚上是一个纯粹的属于男人的晚上 The atmosphere is going to be very macho.
氛围将是非常男子气概的 Why would Plato frame the speeches about love
柏拉图为何要将一场关于爱的对话 with these two exclusions, an exclusion of Dionysus
排除两种东西呢 一种酒神的东西 and an exclusion, especially because it's coded
一种爱神的东西 as an exclusion of the feminine, of Aphrodite.
后者尤其是因其为女性的代表而排除 These two governing deities of human erotic life somehow
这两个掌管人类性爱生活的神 have to be controlled, suppressed, restrained
被人为地控制了 压抑了 遏制了 to open up a space for manly conversation,
从而为男性的交谈腾出空间 for rationalizing conversation about erotic life.
即一场关于性爱生活的理性的交谈 Philosophy enters into Agathon's banquet hall
在阿伽通的大厅里 哲学的进入 under the shadow of weakness, or of wariness.
是披着一层脆弱 谨慎的外衣的 Part of Plato's literary accomplishment in the dialogue
柏拉图的对话的部分成就 will be to show us how these attempted suppressions,
是要向我们展示这样的一种遏制 and exclusions of Dionysus and Aphrodite,
即对酒神和爱神的排除 of the intoxicating and of the musical, the feminine,
或是说对醉酒和音乐 女性的排除 how these two suppressions and exclusions gradually unravel.
这两个排除是怎么一步步进行的 The men start from a position
这群男人们的出发点 where they want to be able to say, "Erotic life is a manly life."
是要表明 性爱生活是男性的生活 But even in their own speeches to try to establish that,
但在他们试图证明这点的演讲中 the Dionysian and the Aphrodisial,
酒神和爱神的所属之物 insinuate themselves back in to human erotic life.
还是不断潜入人类的性爱生活 Let's take a look at how this happens in Phaedrus's speech.
我们来看这一点在菲德鲁斯的讲话中如何体现 I need to say a little bit
我需要跟大家说明一下 about the social situation of Greek homosexuality
希腊同性恋的这个社会背景 which is presupposed in this dialogue.
这也是这个对话的创作背景 At least... And actually,
事实上 our historical knowledge of a lot of this stuff
我们关于这些的很多历史知识 is less secure than we might like it to be.
并不像我们自认为的那么可靠 But at least it seems that
但至少可以说 in certain aristocratic circles in Athens,
在雅典的一些贵族圈子中 just to be cautious about it,
这一点是需要注意的 it was not unusual
在那些圈子里 有一种情况很正常 for older men, say in their 30s, to be erotically attracted
即年长一些的 如30多岁的男性 to very young men in their late teens.
会对十几岁的男孩产生性爱的渴望 Typically, once the young men themselves
一般情况下 一旦男孩 were considered to be fully mature adults by their early 20s,
过了20岁 到了一个成熟男性的阶段 they weren't considered anymore
他们就不再被认为 to be erotically attractive to other adult men.
会对其他成熟男性产生性爱的吸引 Pausanias and Agathon were a notorious and
包萨尼亚和阿伽通可以说是一对 very-well known exception to this typical social process,
臭名远扬的不遵从社会习俗的例外 because Agathon, who in the dialogue is in his early 30s,
因为对话中的阿伽通已是30出头的成熟男性 remained the beloved of Pausanias all the way into adulthood.
却还是包萨尼亚的情伴 But typically that's not the way the
lover和beloved参考刘小枫先生的译法分别译作"有情人"和"情伴" Greeks expected these homosexual,
正常来讲 希腊人并不认同 or more precisely, paederastic relationships to work.
这类同性恋关系 So we're in a context where
或更精确地说是男童恋关系 there is a lot of anxiety about a kind of erotic attraction
所以我们置身于这样一种语境 that it seems everybody at this banquet has experienced.
人们对于这种性爱吸引都非常关切 The problem is how to think of
这种关系似乎是在场的每个人都有体验的 the erotic interest of an older man in a very young man?
问题是 怎么来看待 How to think of that without somehow
一个年长的男人对于年轻的男孩的"性"趣呢 undermining your picture of the manliness,
怎样看待才能 of the masculinity, both of the lover and of the beloved?
不破坏你头脑中男性的画面 So both Phaedrus and Pausanias are addressing
不破坏有情人和情伴的男子气概 a certain anxiety that this particular social custom,
菲德鲁斯和包萨尼亚所谈的 or social practice clearly created in a lot of the Athenians.
是对于这种特别的社会习俗的关切 Phaedrus then is giving a speech that's primarily a defense
也就是很多希腊人在社会中的实际做法 of the manliness of the beloved, of the younger party.
可以说菲德鲁斯的演讲实际上是 Pausanias is giving a speech that's primarily
对情伴 即年轻一方的男子气概的辩护 a defense of the lover, of the older party.
包萨尼亚的演讲则实际上是 It's perfectly clear that
对有情人 即年长一方的辩护 Phaedrus was a very good-looking young man
很清楚的一个情况是 and he may have had many lovers, at least potential lovers,
菲德鲁斯是个年轻帅气的男子 whether they were actual lovers or not.
他有很多追随者 至少是潜在的追随者 Pausanias was especially notorious, certainly famous,
不管事实上有没有成为他的有情人 for being the lover of Agathon even into adulthood.
包萨尼亚臭名远扬 名气不在话下 So Phaedrus is somebody who
因为阿伽通成人后 还被他追随着 when he's defending the beloved in general,
因此菲德鲁斯 is also defending Phaedrus.
在为一般的情伴辩护的时候 And Pausanias is somebody
也是在为他自己辩护 who when he's defending lovers in general,
而包萨尼亚 is defending Pausanias.
在为一般的有情人辩护的时候 When they talk about love,
同样是在为他自己辩护 they're mostly talking about themselves.
他们在谈论爱的时候 Now in Phaedrus's speech,
实际是在谈论自己 what Phaedrus wants to do is to claim that
在菲德鲁斯的演讲中 the beloved, the younger party in a paederastic relationship
他的意图是指明 the beloved in the best kind of relationship is like a hero,
男童恋中的情伴 即年轻的一方 a mythological hero,
在最理想的情况下应该像个英雄 indeed, like the very best hero of them all, Achilles.
一个神话英雄 But to establish this,
尤其是最棒的那个英雄 阿喀琉斯 Phaedrus goes through three mythological couples.
但为了说明这点 The first one that he introduces...
菲德鲁斯先后讲了三对神话人物 Well, before I get to the first couple,
首先讲到的是 notice that Phaedrus starts off
在说第一对之前 with a very bizarre praise of erotic love.
注意菲德鲁斯演讲的开头 He says the great thing about erotic love is
是一串非常怪异的对性爱的赞美 it makes it the best soldier anybody could be.
他说性爱最好的一点事 So he starts off with a kind of
他能激发起人身上最优秀的勇敢品质 wacky, macho way of praising erotic life.
他的讲话正是以这样一种 Whatever erotic life might do for your bravery,
古怪刚强的对性爱生活的赞美开始的 it hardly seems like that's the central way
不管性爱生活怎么影响你的勇气 that connects to human life.
这看起来总也不像是 But you can see why
其连接人类生活的核心方式 Phaedrus whose anxieties about the feminacy,
但是我们明白 the softness of the beloved needs to make that case.
为何这个对情伴的女性化和柔弱的特征 But the first example that he gives,
充满忧虑的人要说这番话 and this is on the bottom of P12 at 179b,
但他举到的第一个例子 is a woman named Alcestis.
这是在第12页下面 179b Her husband is not named here,
这个例子讲的是一个叫阿尔刻提斯的女人 but will be named much later in the dialogue.
她的丈夫这里还没提到 All of these mythological examples
但在后面会说到 will be taken up again later in the dialogue.
所有这些取自神话的例子 Her husband was Admetus and
都会在后面再次出现 Admetus could be saved from the underworld,
她的丈夫是阿德墨托斯 from hell, from Hades, if he could find
他可以从阴间被挽救 somebody who loved him enough to take his place.
或者说从地狱或阎王老儿那儿 So he went to his parents. He thought,
只要他能找到一个愿意替他受死的人 "What the hell. They're all gonna die soon anyway."
于是他就去找爹娘 因为他想 But they wouldn't go.
搞什么搞 他们过不了多久就该死了 They wouldn't ransom their son from the underworld.
结果他们不愿意 The only person who would,
他们不愿给地狱里的儿子赎命 and this was sort of embarrassment for these macho men
唯一愿意的人 the only person who would was his wife.
这对这种大男子主义的人显得尴尬 Now to understand this example,
唯一愿意的人是他的妻子 it's important to realize this:
要理解这个例子 from the point of view that's embodied in this dialogue,
我们需要认识到这点 Admetus was the beloved, the more beautiful one,
从这篇对话所设置的视角而言 the more noble one in the relationship.
阿德墨托斯是情伴的角色 更美的一方 His wife Alcestis is like the lover,
是这关系中更高尚的一方 not exactly that she is older,
而他的妻子阿尔刻提斯则是那个有情人 but she's less characterized by beauty,
倒不是因为她年纪更大 an inversion of where we would expect it to go.
而是因为她缺少美的特质 But Alcestis is an example of the way
这跟我们的想象恰恰相反 that a lover will die for his beloved or her beloved
阿尔刻提斯这个例子表明 even when the beloved's parents wouldn't.
有情人会为了他的或是她的情伴献身 And in the story
就算对方的父母都不会愿意这么做 the gods give Alcestis great honors and rewards.
故事中 Now notice that
诸神给阿尔刻提斯众多荣耀和奖赏 Phaedrus has backed himself into a little bit of a corner here,
大家注意 because it turns out that one of
菲德鲁斯把自己逼到了一个角落 the great examples of the nobility of love is of a woman,
因为他讲的这个 and Phaedrus, after he tells the story I think,
关于崇高的爱的例子中主角竟是个女的 well in the picture he must be thinking,
我想菲德鲁斯讲完这个故事后 something's gone wrong here, this is the wrong story.
心里一定寻思着 So he tells another story.
哪儿不对劲呢 该死用错了例子 First he tells the story about how Orpheus...
于是他就换了一个例子 and Orpheus is on the music side of things,
换的第一个是俄耳甫斯的例子 the Dionysian side of things.
俄耳甫斯跟音乐很有关系 In fact he's the mythological founder of music.
即狄俄尼索斯掌管的领域 Orpheus went down into the underworld
实际上他是音乐在神话中的奠基人 to get his wife Eurydice back.
俄耳甫斯下到阴间 But in a lot of different versions of this myth...
想把妻子欧律狄刻接回来 But apparently
在这个故事的很多不同版本中 he wasn't brave enough to get her all the way out.
都清楚地说 And because of his softness and feminacy
他没有足够的勇气把妻子带回来 as Phaedrus says, he failed.
由于这种软弱和女性化 So Phaedrus has crossed the wires a bit:
正如菲德鲁斯所言 他以失败告终 the one who succeeded in dying nobly
可见菲德鲁斯讲得有些糊涂了 for the beloved is a woman,
为情伴献身的 the one who failed to get the lover back was a man.
是个女人 So then Phaedrus sort of erases the chalk while says
没能把有情人带回来的是个男人 "Don't think about those two anymore, think about Achilles."
菲德鲁斯赶紧遮掩掉这些并说 Achilles's older lover,
别再想他们两个啦 想想阿喀琉斯吧 as Phaedrus says here,
阿喀琉斯那个比他年长的有情人 it's not at all clear in Homer,
菲德鲁斯就这么称呼 that's the way they're presented
尽管荷马并没写的那么清楚 Achilles's older lover Patroclus
但菲德鲁斯就这么说了 is killed by Hector, the great Trojan hero.
阿喀琉斯那个比他年长的有情人帕特洛克罗斯 And then Achilles kills Hector to revenge Patroclus.
被特洛伊英雄赫克托所杀 He knows he can't get Patroclus back,
阿喀琉斯就要杀了赫克托为他复仇 but in order to revenge Patroclus,
他知道已经没法让帕特洛克罗斯复活了 Achilles kills Hector even though Achilles knows
但为了复仇 that means he'll be fated to die himself.
阿喀琉斯杀了赫克托 尽管他知道 And finally, Phaedrus can bring this out relief and say,
他自己会因此而死去 "Now, there's the man's man."
说到这儿 菲德鲁斯终于可以松一口气说 And he doesn't say this explicitly, but everybody knows it.
看见了吧 男人的男人就是这样 And I'm like Achilles,
有一点他没明说 不过人人都知道 I'm like the beloved who would die for his lover.
那就是 我就是那阿喀琉斯 That's how noble I am.
那个愿意为了有情人赴死的情伴 So Phaedrus has gone through
我就是这么高尚 these three mythological exemplars of erotic heroism.
至此 菲德鲁斯讲完了 The first two don't really work so well for him,
这三个关于性爱的英雄神话故事 but the last one Achilles really had sannel in the head.
前两个没帮他什么忙 This macho way of trying to see love
但最后一个阿喀琉斯的例子确实说到了点上 is also behind Pausanias's defense of the lover.
这种以男性的视角看待爱的方式 I only say this much about Pausanias.
也是包萨尼亚为有情人一方辩护时使用的 He tries to introduce the notion that there're two Aphrodites.
关于包萨尼亚我只说一点 One is an all-male Aphrodite.
他试图说明 有两个阿佛洛狄忒 Now think what a dopy idea that is: the god is a beauty.
一个完全男性的阿佛洛狄忒 But, there's one Aphrodite
想想这是个多诡异的想法: 男性的神是个美人 that only has a father that doesn't have a mother.
一个阿佛洛狄忒 And there's another Aphrodite
只有父亲没有母亲 that's androgynous that has a father and a mother.
还有另一个阿佛洛狄忒 And Pausanias says we lovers
这一个双性同体 有父亲也有母亲 are devoted to the heavenly Aphrodite that's all-male,
包萨尼亚说我们这样的有情人 not to the androgynous Aphrodite that's too earthy.
是以完全男性的属天的阿佛洛狄忒神为榜样的 He makes a sharp dichotomy
而不是那个属民的双性同体的阿佛洛狄忒 between the heavenly and the earthy
在此他做了一个鲜明的区分 in terms of the male and the androgynous.
一个是属天的 一个是属民的 That distinction is going to come under a lot of pressure
一个是完全男性的 一个是双性同体的 when we get to the fourth speaker, Aristophanes.
这种区分到了第四个发言者那儿 This Friday, we'll see you at the section meetings
将会受到很多反诘 and on Monday, I'll be talking about
这周五 我们会在讨论课再见 the first Andre Dubus short story: Fallen in Love.
下周一 我们将要讨论
安德拉·德布斯的短篇小说《坠入爱河》