一个上帝 Torah和道 We spoke about the introductory topics
我们已经讲过了入门的主题 Then we spoke about rituals
然后我们讲了仪式 practices, right, customs
实践 风俗 liturgical norms, right?
礼拜仪式规范 Which separates Judaism from Christianity
这些把犹太教和基督教区分开来 We spoke about the big three
我们讲了三大重点 Circumcision, Sabbath, food, the big three
割礼 安息日 食物律法 三大重点 Then we spent two nice weeks
然后我们用了两周时间 on Passover, Pescha, Easter, and Seder
讲了逾越节 复活节 逾越节家宴 Now in the fullness of time
有了前面那些铺垫 we have come to
我们开始讲 the last part of the course
本课程的最后一部分 Where we'll be speaking about
我们会讲到 theology, philosophy, beliefs
宗教体系 哲学 信仰 And again, the point of the course
重申下本课程的重点 is to compare and contrast
就是比较和对比 Jewish with Christian beliefs
犹太人和基督徒的信仰 Always put an eye on
一直着眼于 how Scripture serves as
圣经如何成为 a point of departure for both of them
二者共有的出发点 That Scripture is a set of problems
圣经是一系列的 that needs to be solved
需要被解决的问题 Scripture is the source of information
圣经是信息的来源 from which Judaism and Christianity
由此犹太教和基督教的信仰 derive their beliefs
开始产生分歧 That's what we'll be seeing
这就是我们 for these last few weeks of the course
这几周课程里面所讲的内容 And today, we'll begin our discussion
今天 我们会从讨论 with the biggest topic of all
最重要的一个话题开始 That is to say, God
也就是 上帝 We are not gonna cover all aspects
不用多说 我们不会讲到 of the topic, needless to say
这个话题的所有方面 But I wanna focus on
今天和周三的课程 a couple of, right, specific things
我们会专注于几个 today and Wednesday
特别的方面 And specifically, the question about
具体地说就是关于 intermediaries
媒介的问题 Do we have intermediary powers
在上帝和这个世界中间 between God and the world
上帝和人类之间 between God and us humans
存在媒介的力量吗 I'm not talking now about
我说的不是 human intermediaries, right?
人类的中介人 There are, of course, prophets
当然有先知 p-r-o-p-h-e-t-s, right
拼成p-r-o-p-h-e-t-s There are, of course, prophets
当然有先知 Human being who serve as conduits
作为交流中介的人类 for relaying information
传递上帝和人类 from God to humans
之间的信息 Both Jews and Christians believe that
犹太人和基督徒都相信这一点 because it's right there in the Scripture
因为圣经里面就是这样说的 Both Jews and Christians will come
犹太人和基督徒都相信 to believe in the power of saints
圣徒的力量 Then you'll have prophets
我们有先知 you also have men
我们也有人 usually men, sometimes women, right
一般都是男人 有些时候是女人 who are particularly spiritually endowed
那些被特别赋予一些精神力量的人 Shall we say
可以这样说 Who are holy, and who in their bodies
他们是神圣的 他们的身体 encapsulate, or mediate
存在于 between the realm of the divine
神的领域和 and the human realm
人的领域之间 We are not talking about that today
我们今天和周三 or Wednesday
都不会讲这些 I'm interested in supernatural
我感兴趣的是超自然现象 supra-human, nonhuman beings
天上的神 非人类生灵 that populate the space
生活在天国 between the heavenly realm above
在上面的天国之上 and as the philosophers called
和哲学家所说的 the sublunary world
地下的世界之间 Right, the world in which we live
我们生存的世界 So, basic point
基本的观点是 As we'll see today
我们今天讲的 Ancient Jews, medieval Jews
古代犹太人 中世纪犹太人 modern Jews prop the fact
现代犹太人一直坚持的是 that we worship one God
我们崇拜一个上帝 Usually expressed in the language
一般会用这样的表达 The one God
独一真神 As we'll see on Wednesday
我们在周三会看到 Christians do the same
基督徒也是一样 Christians also loudly trumpet the fact
基督徒也在大声宣称 that we worship the one God
我们崇拜一个上帝 Or, I could be more pugnacious
可以说得更激进一点儿 the one true God
唯一的真正的上帝 One God, Creator of Heaven and Earth
唯一的上帝 创造了天地万物 And this language
这种说法 Jews and Christians share completely
犹太人和基督徒都完全相同 They have complete agreement
他们完全同意 And each Judaism and Christianity alike
和犹太教和基督教类似 or Jews and Christians alike
或者和犹太人和基督徒类似 see this in contrast with
与之相对应的 those people out there
是那些相信 who believe in many Gods
有很多上帝的人 Right? The politically correct will
对这些人政治上的正确 refer those people as polytheists
叫法是多神论者 Polytheists
多神论者 poly of course means many, multiple
poly当然是很多 多个的意思 So the polytheists are those
多神论者就是那些 who believe in many gods
相信有很多上帝的人 We Jews and Christians believe in One God
我们犹太人和基督徒相信唯一的上帝 I'll leave the Christians out for the moment
先暂时不说基督徒 We'll talk about the session
我们会在周三 to themselves on Wednesday
讲到这部分内容 We got equal time
用的时间一样的 Let's now focus on the Hebrew Bible
我们先来看看希伯来圣经 and what happens to the Judaism
和犹太教的方面 So, I need to get some of the words
我先来解释一些 out of the way
专有名词 So what's the opposite of polytheism?
和多神论主义相对的是什么 Polytheism is the ism of polytheists
多神论主义是多神论者的主义 Polytheists are people who
多神论者是那些 believe in, worship, many gods
信仰 崇拜 多个上帝的人 So the opposite of poly
和多相对的 would be, of course, one
当然是一个 That gives us monotheism
于是就有了一神论主义 or a monotheist
或者一神论者 But this already begs the question
但是这样就回避了下面的问题 about what exactly is a monotheist
到底什么是一神论者 what exactly is not a monotheist
什么不是一神论者 So I'm gonna explain briefly now
我来简单解释下 why I will try to avoid that
为什么我会 term in this discussion
避免讨论这个说法 because I don't find it helpful
因为我觉得这没有帮助 Right? A monotheist might be somebody
一神论者可能是那些 who believes in one god
相信有一个上帝 and one god alone, period
而且只有一个上帝的人 Monotheist might be somebody
一神论者可能是那些 who believes that there are all kinds of
相信有很多各种各样的 creatures out there
生物存在 but there is one god who is special
但是有一个上帝是特殊的 Monotheist might be someone who believes
一神论者可能是那些相信 maybe there are many gods out there
有很多上帝存在的人 but only worship one god
但是只崇拜一个上帝 We might not refer to that
我们不应该把这些人 not as monotheism
称为一神论者 but as monolatry
而是一神崇拜 as you can see in my handout
在我给大家的讲义里面可以看到 Monolatry, someone who
一神崇拜 那些 worships one god alone
只崇拜一个上帝的人 latr, that's the root in Greek latruo
latr 来自希腊语latruo的词根 latreia, to worship, to serve
latreia 崇拜 信奉 So monolatrist
一神崇拜 someone who will worship one god
就是崇拜一个上帝的人 maybe believes in many gods out there
也许他们相信有很多上帝 But me, I'm a Jew
但是我 我是犹太人 We Jews only worship this God
我们犹太人只崇拜一个上帝 Roman can worship Jupiter
罗马人可能崇拜朱庇特 Indians can worship whoever
印度人可能崇拜 the Indians worship
印度的神 But I'm a Jew, I worship only one, only this God
但是我是犹太人 我只崇拜一个上帝 Now you call that monotheists
这叫做一神论者 We are now going to see very quickly
我们可以看到这些问题 these questions multiply
很快演变成更多的问题 In fact, the whole point of these two concepts
事实上 这两个概念的重点是 is that the language of monotheism
关于一神论者的说法 is not a useful language
不是特别有用 It doesn't help us understand these phenomenon
对我们理解这种现象没什么帮助 So I'm going to avoid it
所以我准备略过 But, we have that in principle
但是我们的原则是 A polytheist is someone who believes in, comma
多神论者是信仰 and worships may gods
崇拜很多上帝的人 We Jews, and Christians
我们犹太人和基督徒 as we'll see Wednesday
周三会讲到 Right, we loudly proclaim that
我们大声宣称 We are not polytheists
我们不是多神论者 we believe in only one god
我们只信仰一个上帝 and we worship only one god
我们只崇拜一个上帝 However, ancient Jews
然而 古代的犹太人 And as we'll see on Wednesday
周三我们还会讲到 ancient Christians are not
古代的基督徒不是 radical monotheists
激进的一神论者 Who are radical monotheists?
谁是激进的一神论者 I know only one radical monotheist
我只知道在犹太教历史上 in the history of Judaism
有一位激进的一神论者 and that's our friend Maimonides
就是我们的朋友迈蒙尼德 We may recall from weeks ago
可以回忆下几周前提到过 Maimonides says one god exists
迈蒙尼德说存在一个上帝 and he thinks he can logically prove
而且他认为他可以合乎逻辑地证明 that this one god not only exists
不仅仅是只存在一个上帝 this one god needs to exist
而且这个上帝需要存在 this one god must exist
这个上帝必须存在 And that's all
没有别的了 Angels, spirits, all those things
天使 圣灵 所有这些 They are either the way
他们要么是 people perceive things
人们感觉到的东西 but they have no reality
但是不存在 They are modes of talking
他们只是一种说法 but they have no reality
但是不是真实存在的 Or they are not beings
或者不是生灵 And as far as demons
恶魔也是一样 and other such things
还有其他东西 Nonsense
都是胡说 Says Maimonides
迈蒙尼德如是说 There's one god, one god alone
有一个上帝 只有一个上帝 Period
就是这样 That is a tough act to maintain
这种观点很难效仿 As I'll explain in one second
我接来下会解释 Why that is so hard to believe
为什么相信有一个上帝 there is one god, one god alone
只有一个上帝是 and nothing else?
别无他神是很难的 Because all of us feel
因为我们都会感到 in our innermost beings
在我们的内心深处 there's gotta be something else
应该有些什么东西 Give you an analogy
打个比方 You have problem with your car
你的汽车出问题了 To whom you are gonna pray to?
你要向谁祈祷呢 You are gonna go to the CEO of Toyota
你会去找丰田的首席执行官吗 You go to a local dealer
你去找本地经销商 and talk to the service guy
和售后服务交涉 Service guy doesn't solve your problems
售后服务没有解决你的问题 so you talk to their manager
你去找他们的经理 Their branch manager doesn't help you
他们的分店经理没有解决问题 you talk to the district manager
你去找区域经理 District manager doesn't help you
区域经理没解决问题 You go to the central office of Toyota
去找丰田总公司 and talk to their customer relation department
和客户关系部门交涉 That doesn't help you
也没解决问题 You talk to the VP of customer relations
你去和客户关系的副总裁交涉 And then maybe someday, somehow
然后也许有一天 以某种方式 you will get to the president
你会联系上丰田的总裁 the CEO of Toyota
首席执行官 Because you understand
因为你明白 an empire requires bureaucracy
一个帝国需要官僚主义 an empire requires
一个帝国需要 a bureaucratic administration
官僚机构 And it makes no sense to
想象上帝独自一人 imagine God sitting all by himself
坐在天堂的王座上 in his heavenly throne and nobody else
是完全没有道理的 That's not the way the world works
世界不是以这种方式运行的 One second, then I'll be there too
等一下 我会讲到的 It's not the way the world works
世界不是以这种方式运行的 Similarly, have you ever imagine
类似地 你有没有想象过 Any king, remember seeing pictures
哪一个国王 你在电影里面看到过 of them sitting on the throne
坐在王座上的国王 in a throne room all by himself?
是独自一人坐在宫殿里面吗 Have you ever seen such a thing?
你看过这种情况吗 Of course not
当然没有 He's surrounded by people
他被一大群人包围着 of all kinds of fancy schmancy costumes
各种穿着盛装的 and titles, and sitting in the office
各种头衔的 坐在办公室里 and things so on, and guards
各种各样的人 还有护卫 and ministers, and etc
有大臣 等等 That's I know is a king
这才是国王 Because you walk into a room
因为你走进房间 Boom, you are overwhelmed
一下子你就被震撼了 What kind of king is it
国王一个人 just by himself all alone in the throne room
呆在他自己的宫殿里面 算是什么国王 In other words, we demand
换句话说 我们需要 our human senses of how the world works
我们人类的感觉世界运行的方式 demands the idea
需要这个概念 that God is surrounded by all kinds of
上帝被各种各样的 I'm not sure what noun to use
我不知道应该用哪个词来形容 Creatures, beings, well, assistance
生物 生灵 助手 Right, people who assist God
那些帮助上帝 in running the world
管理世界的人 Just as CEO of Toyota has an army of people
就像是丰田的首席执行官 to making sure Toyota customers are happy
有一大堆人来确保丰田的用户满意 Surely, God has similarly
肯定上帝也有 an army of assistance of all kinds
类似的各种各样的很多助手 who help him run the world
帮助他管理世界 This is what I call
我把这个称为 complementary intermediaries
补充性媒介 or complementary beings
或者补充性生灵 who are working with God
那些和上帝一起工作的人 who are on the same team
那些同一团队的人 Oh, God is a CEO
上帝是首席执行官 God is a president
上帝是总裁 No question about that
这毫无疑问 But he has a whole army of these beings
但是还有很多其他生灵 who helped God run the world
帮助上帝管理世界 And isn't it impossible not to believe this?
难道可以不相信这一点吗 If you believe in God running the world
如果你相信上帝在管理世界 Then this more or less follows
那么肯定会有这些东西 This is a bureaucratic enterprise
这是个官僚机构 Therefore, I'll conclude
因此我推断出 I'll take questions now
我要回答问题了 I don't know any ancient Jew
我不知道有任何古代犹太人 or ancient Christian
或者古代基督徒 Or for that matter, medieval Jew
或者就此而言 中世纪犹太人 and a precious few medieval Jews
少有的中世纪犹太人 a precious few Christians
少有的基督徒 who are radical monotheists out of Maimonides
除了迈蒙尼德之外的激进的一神论者 All of them believe in some kind of
他们全都相信有那些 complementary intermediaries
补充性媒介 What do you want to call that
你准备怎么称呼他们 monotheists or not?
一神论者还是其他 I'll leave that to you
你们自己决定 I don't find that a helpful or interesting question
我觉得这个问题没什么帮助 也不感兴趣 Okay, yes
好的 请说 Well, besides they describing God
除了把上帝描述成 as kind of like the king, which also
像是国王的样子 我们也可以 I feel like the image of the God
我觉得上帝的形象 is the Father used to be like
有点像是父亲 Yes, good
是的 很好 You could picture God as the soul father
你可以把上帝想象成是灵魂之父 You know, you don't have like
不需要把上帝想象成是 Excellent, that's excellent point
很好 非常好的观点 I'll accept that
我同意这点 You have a, not conflicting metaphors
你这是一个不冲突的比喻 You have a whole range of metaphors
你这是一个全方位的比喻 which we understand
我明白 how God relates to the world
上帝和世界的关系 So I emphasize the kingly one
我着重讲的是将上帝比作国王的说法 Cos it fits well what we'll be doing here
因为这和我们讲的内容很符合 But you are right
但是你是对的 There are other metaphors
还有其他的比喻 God as Father, God as protector
上帝像是父亲 上帝是保护者 I don't know, there's a whole series of things
有一系列的比喻方式 which are more personal
更加个人化 Yeah, I agree with that
是的 我同意这点 Those metaphors do not require intermediaries
这些比喻不需要媒介 It's probably not accidental then
这可能不是意外 when we want to pray to God
当我们需要向上帝祈祷 we imagine God as Father
我们把上帝想象成父亲 we conceive of God as one of the universe
我们把上帝想象成在某个宇宙中 and God as king
上帝是国王 Right? I think that's what makes sense, yes?
我认为这说得通 对吧 Yes
是的 Yes, thank you
谢谢 That's well observed, thank you
很好的观点 谢谢 Other observations? Questions?
其他观点 问题 Yes
请说 Well, this used to be like
这有点像是 perfect animation of weapons
卡通片里面完美的武器 He sort of need this power to spread it over
他需要这种力量去传播蔓延 You know, why does it have to have
为什么一定要 Why do people feel like it has to be other?
为什么人们一定要把上帝想象成异类 Well, I give you my Toyota analogy
我刚讲了丰田的例子 Which I guess you don't find it
我想你可能没有 completely convincing
完全信服 Well, when we get to Maimonides
当我们讲到迈蒙尼德 Now we get to very quickly at
我快速讲一下 medieval philosophy, right
中世纪的哲学 which I don't want to do
我本来不想讲 cos it will take it far afield
因为这跑题了 But the question is whether
但是这个问题是 we imagine God as fundamentally human
要么我们把上帝想象成就是人类 or we imagine God as
要么我们把上帝 fundamentally Other, capital O
想象成是异类 大写的O Maimonides is not coincidentally
迈蒙尼德把上帝 sees God as absolutely Other, right
想象成异类不是巧合 completely different from you, from us humans
完全和我们人类不一样 that we humans can't conceive of God
我们没办法想象上帝的样子 cos we can't even talk about God
因为我们甚至没法谈论上帝 cos we have constrained by
因为受到语言限制 the limits of language
的约束 And as we will do with limits of language
使用我们有限的语言 we are not able to say what God is
我们没办法说上帝是什么 we are going to say what God isn't
我们只能说上帝不是什么 in Maimonides
迈蒙尼德这样说 so called negative theology, right
我们把这个叫做否定神学 And that's very tough, I mean
这很难理解 Usually the philosopher is able to say
一般都是哲学家才能理解 Then take this god and say
把上帝想象成这样 说 This is the god we pray to
这是我们祈祷的上帝 How on earth you pray to a god
你怎么可能向一个上帝祈祷 who in your mind is completely Other
而在你脑中他却是个完全的异类 and you can't even describe
你甚至没法描述他 you can only describe it negatively
你只能从反面描述 Right? Make sense out of that
能说得通吗 Well that's tough
这很深奥 But Maimonides is a tough act, right
但是迈蒙尼德就让人费解 对吧 I think most people, on one hand
我想大多数人一方面 might say they believe God
会说我们相信上帝 as omniscient and omnipotent
是无所不知无所不能的 You know, all these other things
还有各种其他东西 I'll come back to those things
我希望在今天结束前 by the end of today, I hope
能讲到这些 On the other hand, however
然而另一方面 At the end of the day
到了最后 you have to relate to this God in some way
你必须和这个上帝以某种方式联系起来 And that inevitably demands
这就不可避免的需要 the human metaphor
涉及人类的比喻 Just because we humans are limited
因为我们人类受到 by our own finite intelligence
有限的智力 and by language
和语言的限制 We don't have any vehicle that
我们没有其他的媒介 wish to think of God in any other way
把上帝想象成是另外的样子 On this point, Jews and Christians would agree
在这点上 犹太人和基督徒的意见是一致的 In fact, medieval philosophy
事实上 中世纪的哲学家 Jews and Christians and Muslin
犹太人 基督徒和穆斯林 are all basically arguing about the same thing
基本上都是在互相讨论 among each other
同样的东西 It's almost indistinguishable
甚至没办法区分 It's quite fascinating
这非常有意思 Okay, so that's where we were talking about
这就是我们要讲的 That's our agenda for today
这就是我们今天的要讲的内容 I'm not talking about
我不是在讲 as you see here, the problem of evil
你们也看到了 邪恶的问题 antagonistic intermediaries
敌对的媒介 or antagonistic beings
或者敌对生灵 Alright, both Jews and Christians alike
犹太人和基督徒都一样 and the Muslins too, right
还有穆斯林 have a belief that
都相信 one way of solving the problem of evil
解决邪恶问题的一种方法 is of course to argue that
当时是承认 this world in which we humans inhabit
我们人类栖息的世界 This world of matter is in fact, fundamentally
这个世界从本质上说 根本上说 flawed, or corrupt
是有缺陷的 是腐败的 or decrepit, or noxious, right?
是破旧的 是道德败坏的 Because it is under the
因为是在 baneful sway of evil forces
被邪恶的势力影响着 Satan, Samael, Lucifer, etc
撒旦 萨麦尔 路西法 等等 There are lots of names, right
有很多名字 对吧 and his minions, right?
还有他们的属下 All of whom of course want nothing more than
那些只想要 inflicting misery and suffering
让我们人类 on us poor human beings
遭遇痛苦和苦难 and they succeeded in doing so
而且他们还成功了 Right? And we humans somehow
我们人类于是就 have to fight the good fight
必须奋起反抗 and beat them back to submission
直到把他们打败 or something like that
之类的 So Jews and Christians alike
犹太人和基督徒同样 believe in this kind of battle
相信这种战役的存在 going on between light and dark
在光明和黑暗之间 good and evil
善与恶之间 good guys and bad guys, etc
好人和坏人之间 等等 Okay, I'm not talking about that
这些我今天和周三 today, or Wednesday
都暂时不会讲到 We'll talk about sin in a couple of weeks
过几周我们会讲到关于罪恶的内容 But I'm not talking about these
但是我不会讲这些 antagonistic intermediaries, right?
敌对媒介 Best known into a zone
最有名的是一个地方 Western lit, from Paradise Lost, right?
西方文学 叫做失乐园 对吧 The hero of which is Lucifer
故事里的英雄是路西法 That's the hero of the poem
诗歌里面的英雄 Take English 101, right?
上上英文基础课 They still read Paradise Lost
在这个阶段 英文基础课 I hope English 101 in this place
我觉得应该还在读失乐园 No, or they are twisting reading theory
如果没有 就是他们在扭曲阅读理论 I didn't say that
这句话我没说 strike that from the record, okay
把这段视频删掉 Okay, so back to where we are
言归正传 Questions?
有问题吗 So we'll be speaking about
我们讲到了 complementary intermediaries, right?
补充性媒介 对吧 Those beings that are in God's team, right
这些生灵站在上帝一边 That are helping God run the world
帮助上帝管理世界 or serve somehow to intermediate
或者作为媒介 between the realm of the divine
联系神的世界 and the realm of us humans below
和我们人类的世界 Now I don't have time to deal
现在我没有时间讲 now with what the Hebrew Bible
希伯来圣经里面 has to say about these intermediaries
是怎么说这些媒介的 The answer of course is very confusing
答案当然是非常令人迷惑的 and the record is not clear or consistent
而且记录不清楚也不一致 I'm interested in what ancient Jews
我感兴趣的是古代犹太人 made out of the mysterious record
如何理解希伯来圣经里面 of the Hebrew Bible on the subject
关于这些话题的神秘内容 Or both challenges that
或者也是 the Hebrew Bible raises for
希伯来圣经对于后来的 later Jewish thinkers
犹太思想家的挑战 So here I picked out three areas to talk about
我会挑三方面来讲 which are particularly rich
内容非常的多 And also all three lead us directly into
这三方面都会直接引出 what Justin will be doing on Wednesday
我们周三要讲的犹斯丁的观点 Not coincidentally
这不是巧合 So these are three I'd like to talk about
我要讲三方面 Talk about the biblical record
讲圣经的记录 And what ancient Jews got out of it
以及古代犹太人如何理解 What they derived or deduced from it
他们从这里面得出了什么结论 These are the big three
这三点分别是 So, angels, temple/tabernacle
天使 圣殿/帐幕 and creation of Adam
和创造亚当 So these three I'll be talking about
我会讲这三方面的内容 These three are the most interesting
这三个里面最有趣的 by and by in this No.3
是第三点 But, you'll see
你们会看到的 So, No.1
第一 Angels
天使 The word angels is a Greek word
天使这个词是来自希腊语 Right, a Greek word angelos or angeloi
在希腊语里面拼成angelos或者angeloi which is a simple plain
只是古希腊语里面 old Greek word for messengers
表示信使的一个词 Right, that's literally what it means
这是这个词的字面意思 Messengers
信使 malak
你们不需要知道这个 Which you don't need to know
希伯来单词里面的天使 The Hebrew word for angels
有些时候会被 can sometimes be used in
用作一般的希伯来叙述文 normal Hebrew prose narratives
来指代信使 to refer to a messenger
我给你发了一条信息 I send you a messenger
雅各给他兄弟以扫发了信息 Jacob sent his brother Esau messengers
希伯来词 天使 Hebrew word, angels
但是这种会飞的生物 But that fluttering creature
因为翅膀和光晕而变得很神奇 was mysterious with wings and halos
他们只是那些 They are just guys
发电报的人 who are taking a telegraph
对吧 他们是信使 Right? They are those messengers
圣经里面提到的这些信使 Right, so among the messengers in Scripture
是人类的信使 are normal human messengers
但是我们今天感兴趣的不是这些 But we are not interested in those today
我们感兴趣的是神的信使 We are interested in divine messengers
或者那些带来消息的信使 Or messengers who are bringing
重复下 不是人类 who are again, non human beings
他们作为一种媒介 who are serving as intermediaries
联系上帝和我们人类 between God and the realm of us humans
可以在希伯来圣经本身看到 Here you can see interesting development
一些非常有趣的发展过程 in Hebrew Scriptures themselves
圣经里面的叙事 The narratives of the Bible
经常提到天使 frequently mention angels
他们没有个性 名字或者等级 they lack individuality, names or rank
早期的故事只是说这是天使 And early stories just says it's an angel
天使对亚伯兰说 Angel spoke to Abraham
或者上帝派一位天使出来做了什么 Or God sent an angel and did something
晚期的犹太人理解成 And later Jews understood that to mean
这些生灵 These were beings
就是这个词 对吧 That's the right word, right
由上帝创造来执行某项任务 Created by God to fulfil a certain mission
他们完成任务然后就消失了 They do the mission and they disappear
我们不存在 They have no existence
没有身份 They have no identity
他们只是简单地代表神出现在 They are simply manifestations of the divine
那个时刻 at that moment
那种情况下 in that context
为了当时的目的 for that purpose
先跳到下一个要点 Jumping ahead of the next bullet point
说一下 在最下面 for a second, at the bottom
后来的书 尤其是但以理书 In the later books, notably Daniel
可以看到天使开始发展 we see that angel start to develop
这里我们回到 Here we go back to my
我之前对此的说法 earlier comment to that
上帝是官僚 God being a bureaucrat
上帝是首席执行官 God being the CEO
这就是但以理书 That's how the Book of Daniel
和所有晚期的犹太人和基督徒 and all later Jews and Christians
所理解的上帝管理世界的方式 understand how God runs the world
这些都是助手 Right, there are all these assistance
这些大臣 all these ministers
这些办公室经理 all these office managers
都是天使 These are all angels
他们中最重要的 And the bigger among them
最强壮的天使有自己的名字 the stronger among these angels have names
他们永远存在 They have permanent existence
拉斐尔 加百利 米迦勒 Rafael, Gabriel, Michael
有些被称作大天使 对吧 Some of them are called archangels, right
因为他们有身份 Cos they seem to have identity
他们永远存在 seem to exist permanently
我们已经在希伯来圣经 We see that already by the later books of
最后一部但以理书看到了 the Hebrew Scripture notably Daniel
来自公元二世纪 which is from the 2nd century BCE
希伯来圣经的最后一部 The last book in the Hebrew Bible
希伯来圣经的最新的一部 The latest book in the Hebrew Bible
上上我讲希伯来圣经的课 Take my course on intro to Hebrew Scriptures
有了这些 Okay, so with that
但以理书就进入了 With Daniel we are on our trajectory
天使这一系列 to developing a whole series
信仰和概念的发展轨道 of beliefs and ideas about angels
犹太人和基督徒从这里发展起来 Out of which Jews and Christians developed
这被称作天使学 that's called angelology in the business
关于天使的理论和学说 Right? Theory and doctrine of angels, right?
我们有很多学派 Which we have whole schools of
很多关于天使发展的想法 thought developing what are angels
我先回到早一些的阶段 I'd like to go back to the older stage
那时候天使还只是没有名字的生灵 when angels were simple anonymous things
只在故事情节里面出现 that exist for the moment in the storyline
我们会看到后来的犹太人和基督徒 And later Jews and Christians, as we'll see
完全迷糊了 were completely mystified
怎么样理解故事里面的天使 how to understand the relationship
和上帝自己 of the angel in the story
之间的关系 with God himself
在Torah的所有段落里面 And of all the passages in the Torah
我们对于天使 which we are confused
和上帝的关系的疑惑 by relationship of angel to God
我觉得创世记第18章 I would say in Genesis 18
是最令人迷惑的 got to be the most confusing
最让人着急的 the most tantalizing
最令人生气的段落 the most infuriating passage
这段里叙事者 in which the narrator
以一种奇怪的方式在 jumps back and forth in an odd way
上帝和天使之间来回跳跃 between God and angel
这种方式 in such a way that
让读者彻底糊涂了 we the readers are thoroughly confused
我来简要读一下 So I'll read this very briefly
这是你们今天的阅读作业 This is in your readings for today
第18章第1节 Chapter 18 verse 1
耶和华在幔利橡树那里 The Lord appeared to Abraham
向亚伯拉罕显现出来 by the oaks of Mamre
就是这样开始的 That's how it starts
他举目观看 亚伯拉罕举目观看 He looked up, Abraham looked up
见有三个人在对面站着 and saw three men standing near him
用的这个词 人 That's the word, men
见有三个人在对面站着 He saw three men standing near him
在第一节是上帝出现了 So I've got the God, or Lord in verse 1
第二节 亚伯拉罕看到了三个人 In verse 2, I see Abraham with three men
我已经开始疑惑了 I'm confused already
他一见 When he saw them
就从帐篷门口跑去迎接他们 he ran from the tent entrance to meet them
说 我主 He said, My Lords
希伯来圣经的断句方法 The Hebrew could be punctuated
可以理解为单数或复数 singular or plural
我主 或者我主 My Lord, or my Lords
我若在你眼前蒙恩 If I find favor with you
求你不要离开仆人往前走 do not pass by your servant
他们说 They said to him
然后他 他说 Then he, he said
他 很明显是三个人中的一个 He, apparently one of the three men
对亚伯拉罕说 said to Abraham
然后是第13节 Then verse 13
耶和华对亚伯拉罕说 The Lord said to Abraham
已经乱套了 It's spinning
耶和华从哪里来的 Where does the Lord come from?
我以为我们是在和三个人说话 I thought we have three men here
我已经完全迷惑了 Ah, I'm completely confused
耶和华是从哪来 Where does the Lord pop out
突然就冒出来的 all of a sudden from?
三人就从那里起行 Then the men set out from there
向所多玛观看 and they looked towards Sodom
耶和华说 The Lord said
然后主说 等等等 Then the Lord said, blablabla
二人转身离开那里 The men turned from there
向所多玛去 and went towards Sodom
但亚伯拉罕仍旧站在耶和华面前 Abraham remained standing before the Lord
耶和华 The Lord went his way
与亚伯拉罕说完了话就走了 When he finished speaking to Abraham
亚伯拉罕也回到自己的地方去了 and Abraham turned to his place
那两个天使晚上到了所多玛 The two angels came to Sodom in the evening
现在你可能会同意我的观点 Now you would agree with me
如果你是古代犹太人 that if you are an ancient Jew
或者基督徒读这段叙事 or Christian reading this narrative
你可能会有些迷惑 you might be slightly confused
怎么样理解上帝 How to understand how God
和那三个神秘的天使的关系 relates to these mysterious angels
也来找亚伯拉罕了 who came to Abraham
他们做了什么 and what they did
谁能在同一时间是 Who are either God, Lord, men
上帝 耶和华 人 天使 angels, all the same time
给大家留一个悬念 Among rooms to suspense for you
我会在周三再一次讲到这个段落 Cos I'll come back to this passage on Wednesday
因为犹斯丁非常看重这段 cos Justin makes much of it
把这段当成是 as a fascinating example of
犹太人和基督徒怎么样 how Jews and Christians
分别理解这段中的神学的绝好的例子 each read their theologies into the passage
如果你看了犹太学习圣经的注释 If you look at the notes in the JSB
犹太学习圣经会说 这一段是 The JSB will say, the passage is
上帝和两个天使出现的 God appears with two angels
他们是这样解决这个问题的 That's how they solve this
上帝和两个天使一同出现 God appears with two angels
或者耶和华和两个天使一同出现 Or the Lord appears with two angels
所以耶和华在这边 两个天使在那边 So Lord is here, two angels are there
他们在一起的时候 一共三个 They come together, they are 3
他们分开 就是上帝和两个天使 They separate, we got 1 and 2
对吧 教室里面的基督徒 Alright? you Christians in the room
可能会对自己说 are thinking to yourself
天啊 这不就是三位一体吗 Gee, isn't this the Trinity?
不要担心这个 我考虑到这个了 Yes, don't worry, we thought of that
我们会在周三讨论 We'll discuss that on Wednesday
总之这是一个很好的例子 Anyway, this is a good example where
犹太人和基督徒读者都很迷惑 Jewish reader and Christian readers are puzzled
这些神秘的天使 What are these mysterious angels
他们 How do they
他们很明显是作为某种媒介出现的 They clearly serve in some way to intermediate
在上帝和世界之间 between God and the world
上帝和亚伯拉罕之间 between God and Abraham
上帝和所多玛人之间 God and the people of Sodom
但是不是完全清楚 But it's not at all clear
这些天使之间是什么关系 how these angels relate to each other
和上帝什么关系 to God
或者他们怎么样成为一个整体的 or how do they form a whole
有一系列的问题 So a series of questions
这些都是犹太人最不解的问题 They are on top questions that Jews will ask
上帝的使者 Cos angel of God is
是上帝的另外一种说法 another way of saying God
有很多段落都是这样说的 And many passages look that way
先是说上帝说 Cos it says God said
到了下一节可能是 The next verse might say
上帝的使者说 An angel of God said
上帝的使者出现了 An angel of God appeared
一个很好的例子是著名的Akidas Good example is the famous Akidas
抱歉 我要跑题了 Sorry, I'am going to distract it
创世记第22章 Genesis 22
可以看到说法来回的换 You see it flits back and forth
所以关于天使 So we have angels
天使是一种神秘的生物 Angels are these very mysterious creatures
突然出现在了叙事里面 who pops up into the narratives
我们不知道他们是谁 We don't know who they are
圣经从来没有告诉我们 Scripture never tells us
或者解释说天使是什么 or explains what angels are
这个问题要留给我们读者去解决 And it leaves for us readers to figure that out
好了 这是一组 Okay, that's one set of
有趣的有挑战性的问题 interesting challenges or problems
天使 Angels
第二组有趣的 Second set of interesting
有挑战性的问题是 challenges or problems will be
圣殿 或者帐幕 The temple, or tabernacle
谁能告诉我 Okay, somebody remind me
什么是帐幕 What's a tabernacle?
可以移动的圣坛帐篷 Portable tent shrine
是以色列人在荒野中建造的 built by the Israelites in the wilderness
是的 Yes
在出埃及记和民数记里面 Okay, described in great detail
都有非常详尽的细节描写 in Exodus and in Numbers
出埃及记和民数记 Book of Exodus and Book of Numbers
后来被圣殿取代 Replaced by the temple
当以色列人征服了迦南 when the Israelites conquered the land of Canaan
建立了王国 and established a kingdom there
根据列王纪的记载 According to the Book of Kings
大卫做了准备 David prepared the way
所罗门王建造了圣殿 and King Solomon built the temple
所以圣殿/帐幕 So the temple/tabernacle, right
是中心祭司地 is the central cult site
这是以色列人 It is a place where
崇拜耶和华的地方 the Israelites worship the Lord
是上帝的存在被感知的地方 when the God's presence is felt
这是什么意思 What does that mean?
上帝的存在被感知 God's presence is felt
圣经给了我们各种 Well, Scripture gives us all kinds of
自相矛盾的 折磨人的线索 conflicting, tantalizing clues
上帝在圣殿里面吗 Is God in the temple?
一种可能是 在里面 Well, one possibility is, yeah
上帝在圣殿里面 God's in the temple
上帝在帐幕里面 God's in the tabernacle
如果你反对说 And if you object
上帝不是 doesn't God occupy
在整个宇宙中无处不在的吗 the whole space of the world?
上帝怎么可能把自己 How can God limiting himself
塞到那么小的一个地方去呢 squeezing himself into a little building?
非常好的问题 Excellent question
列王纪已经提到了这一点 The Book of Kings already says that
所罗门王的献殿祷告 King Solomon's dedication of the temple
大声地说 says out loud
(希伯来语) The heavens can barely contain you
天和天上的天 尚且不足你居住的 much less than this little building
何况我所建的这殿呢 This is King Solomon
这是所罗门王 and he just spent 100 billion dollars
刚刚花了不计其数的钱 building this grand edifice
建造了这个宏伟的建筑 He's loudly proclaiming its inadequacy
他大声宣告这是远远不够的 And indeed, this endures
而且确实这引出了 in Jewish and Christian thinking as a problem
犹太教和基督教对此的疑问 Right, if you are having a universal God
如果上帝是万能的神 How can a universal God
万能的神怎么能 What does sacred space mean
神圣的地方是什么意思 if you have a universal God
如果上帝的万能的 How does God's power get concentrated
上帝的神力怎么能集中到 or limited into a given space
一个特定的空间 when God by definition occupies everything
而上帝被定义成是无所不在的 So some radical heretics
所以一些激进的异教徒 would come along and say
会跑出来说 Churches are nonsense
教堂没有任何意义 Don't build churches
不要建教堂 But they are heretics
但是他们是异教徒 Cos humans need churches, right?
因为人类需要教堂 对吧 God is everywhere, I know
上帝是无所不在的 我知道 But we need a sacred space
但是我们需要一个神圣的空间 We human, maybe God doesn't need it
我们人类需要 也许上帝不需要 but we humans need it
但是我们人类需要 Okay, that's a slightly different discussion
这就是另外一个问题了 anyway
总之 So, one possibility is
其中一种可能是 Who is in the temple?
谁在圣殿里面 It's God in the temple
上帝在圣殿里面 Here we have this wonderful verse
这里有一个精彩的章节 About the tabernacle
关于帐幕 Where God comes into the temple
当上帝来到圣殿 and we have a pillar of smoke or cloud
然后有很多烟雾缭绕的东西 comes in, occupies, fills up the sacred space
飘进来 充满了整个神圣的空间 Exodus 25:8
出埃及记第25章第8节 Mind my page right there, is it, okay
我的讲义打到大屏幕上了吗 好的 With reference to tabernacle
说的是帐幕 Then have them make a sanctuary for me
又当为我造圣所 and I will dwell among them
使我可以住在他们中间 It says
(希伯来语) Make a tabernacle for me
圣经如是说 God says in the wilderness
为我造一个帐幕 I would dwell among them
上帝在荒野中说 This mean within the community of Israel
我会住在他们中间 The text already doesn't say explicitly
是在说以色列人中间 I would dwell in it
这段没有明确地说 Says I would dwell among them
我会住在里面 among the Israelites
说我会住在他们中间 Different text is already trying to
在以色列人中间 soften this idea of
不同的文本以及开始试着 God limiting himself into a small
淡化这个概念 jukebox of a building
上帝把他自己限制在一个 Anyway, the word for
狭小的空间里面 I will dwell is an important word
总之这个词 mishkan in Hebrew
我会住在里面是个重要的词 gives us the root of shekhinah
希伯来词mishkan which I'm sure a term
是shekhinah的词根 many of you have come across
这是一个你们会 This is a term that
经常见到的词条 medieval Jewish thought will loom large
这个词条 As the aspect of God
在中世纪犹太人看来 非常重要 that actually dwells
因为上帝的这方面 that is what is means
是真的居住在 dwells, or is immanent, right
就是这个意思 in the world, in our sphere
居住 或者在什么之内 对吧 This is also a medieval cabalistic thinking
在我们的世界 我们的星球上 What's cabalistic?
这也是一种中世界犹太神秘哲学想法 Jewish mystical thinking
什么是犹太神秘哲学 It's also the fun aspect of God
犹太人神秘的想法 So this has legs, this notion
这也是上帝有趣的一面 That God indwelling
这种概念被传播开了 This will have legs
上帝住在里面 in medieval Jewish thinking
在中世纪 But anyway, it come starts here
犹太人中间被传播开了 So who is in the temple?
总之 从这里开始的 One possibility
所以谁在圣殿里面 It's God himself in the temple
一种可能性 Next possibility is
上帝自己在圣殿里面 the Name of God is in the temple
另一种可能是 Not God, the Name of God
上帝之名在圣殿里面 This you'll find the word
不是上帝 而且上帝之名 in the Book of Deuteronomy
你会在申命记里面 where Deuteronomy keeps repeating
看到这种说法 over and over again
申命记一直在 The place that God shall choose
一遍一遍地重复 his name to dwell
只当在耶和华你神选择要 It's a phrase that appears
立为他名的居所 at least 10 times in Deuteronomy
(希伯来语) So it's not God in the temple
这个说法在申命记 They are also in Deuteronomy
出现过至少10次 seems to be already hesitant to say
所以不是上帝在圣殿里面 it's God isn't in the sacred center
也是在申命记里面 No, it's not God, it's God's name
似乎在迟疑地说 It's in the sacred center
上帝没有在神圣中心 Similarly, priestly materials emphasize
不 不是上帝 是上帝之名 it's not God in the temple
在神圣中心 It's God's Honor, or Glory
类似地 祭司的材料强调 Translated in the JSB, Presence
不是上帝在圣殿里面 God's Glory fills up the space
是上帝的荣誉 或者荣耀 again, I'm assuming that
犹太学习圣经翻译成 存在 the authors don't wanna say it's God
(希伯来语) They wanna say, it's God's Glory
上帝的荣耀充满整个空间 it's to get a way of softening this problem
我再次觉得 This theological problem
作者不想说是上帝 Here are some passages I gave you
他们想说 是上帝的荣耀 Exodus and Kings
这是在想办法淡化这个问题 So later Jews and Christians
这个神学上的问题 reading these passages will be puzzled
这里是我给大家的阅读段落 They will ask themselves
出埃及记和列王纪 Is Name of God another way of saying God?
后来的犹太人和基督徒 When Deuteronomy says the Name of God
会对这个段落感到迷惑 occupies the central site
他们会问自己 Does Deuteronomy simply mean to say God?
上帝之名是不是另外一种说上帝的方法 But Deuteronomy says Name of God
当申命记说上帝之名 It just means God
占据着中心位置 It's another way of saying
申命记只是想说上帝 another way of talking
但是申命记说的是上帝之名 When the priestly traditions
就是上帝的意思 talk about God's Presence
这是另外一种说法 or God's Glory or Honor
另外一种叫法 That's simply another way of saying God
祭司的传统 and the analogy would be
是说上帝的存在 Just as we say in certain context
或者上帝的荣耀或者荣誉 His Holiness
这只是对上帝的另外一种叫法 Your Majesty
和这个类似的是 What does Your Majesty mean?
当我们在某些语境下会说 Means you
圣座 But you is too direct
陛下 when talking to the queen
陛下是什么意思 So you don't say, you
就是你的意思 you say, Your Majesty
但是当你和 You are talking to the pope
女王说话的时候这样太直接了 You don't say you
你不会说你 You say, Your Holiness, His Holiness, etc
你说陛下 It's a way of buffering
你和教皇说话 But it really just means you
你不会说你 It's all what it means
你会说 教皇陛下 圣驾 等等 Or she
用这种说法做下缓冲 It's just a polite way of addressing it
但是其实就是你的意思 Polite way of talking
就是这个意思 Is that all it's going on here, class?
或者她 Or maybe to this text
只是一种比较礼貌的说法 they already have some kind of idea
一种礼貌的说法 that God's name, God's glory
真的是这么回事吗 同学们 has some independent existence of God
或者也许对这一段 Or is a thing
已经有了一些想法 So God's over here
上帝之名 上帝的荣耀 And God's Name is here in the temple
是独立于上帝的存在 God's here
或者是某种存在 And God's Glory is here in the temple
上帝是这里 Because Glory, Name is a thing
上帝之名在圣殿里面 Part of God and yet separate from God
上帝在这里 It is a thing in its own right
上帝的荣耀在圣殿里面 Is that I wish you to interpret it? question mark
因为荣耀 名字都是一种存在 I don't know
是上帝的一部分但是又和上帝分开来 But this I do know
是有自己力量的一种存在 This mysterious process
我希望这样解读吗 大家认为 If you look at it in a latter way
我不知道 This is what we call
但是我确实知道 in fancy schmancy language
这个神秘的过程 hypostatization, or reification
如果以后一种方式看待 which we are taking a
这就是我们所说的 Thank you
用个华丽的说法 Which we are taking a quality or a concept
实体化 或者具体化 and treating it as a thing
也就是我们 After all, the Name of God of course is God
谢谢 And yet we are treating it
也就是我们把某种东西或者概念 as if the Name of God
当成一种存在看待 were something separate
毕竟上帝之名当然是上帝 as if it were a freestanding thing
我们把它当成 That's hypostatization or if you want, reification
把上帝之名当成 Okay, slight digression for a second
某种分开的 Hypostasis is a fancy schmancy Greek word
独立的存在 referring to the same thing as the Latin substance
这就是实体化 或者具体化 Right, hypo-, sub-
稍微跑一下题 This is the same
Hypostasis(本质)是一个华丽的希腊词 -stasis and -stance is clearly the same
和拉丁语里面的substance(物质)是一个意思 So it's substance
对吧 hypo-, sub- Hypostatization, treating a concept
是一样的 as a thing, as a substance
-stasis和-stanc很明显是一样的 Just a reification of Latin
这是物质 rei- means raise a thing
实体化 把一种概念 -fi-, the root fic in Latin
当成一种东西 一种物质 of course means to make
是拉丁语的具体化 Reification, reify, reification
rei-的意思是提高 make it into a thing
-fi-的拉丁文词根是fic So the question is
当然是创造的意思 When the Hebrew Bible talks about
具体化 使具体化 具体化 God's Name, God's Glory
当成某种东西 Do we have your simply
所以问题是 polite forms of address?
当希伯来圣经提到 Which I might call perhaps a mild hypostasis
上帝之名 上帝的荣耀 like Your Honor
只是一种简单的 What's Your Honor mean?
礼貌的说法 You, the judge
也许可以说是一种文雅的叫法 But I don't wanna say you
比如阁下 So it's a little disrespectful
阁下是什么意思 to someone might throw him in jail
你 大法官 So I'll say Your Honor instead
但是我不想说你 as a way of being a little more respectful
因为这对一个可能把你 Right, but as God
丢进监狱的人来说不太尊重 Your Honor doesn't really have any meaning
所以我会说阁下 It's just you
作为一种有礼貌的称呼 Or do we imagine might say
但是对上帝来说 Your Honor, no
阁下没有任何含义 Your Honor actually is a thing
只是你 I'm not talking to you
或者我们想象下可能会说 I'm talking to Your Honor
阁下 不 That would be a hypostatization
阁下是个实际存在 So when the Scripture talks about
我不是在和你说话 God's Name and Glory
我是在和阁下说话 which one is it?
这就是实体化 Just a polite way of talking?
所以当圣经提到 Or they are already assuming that
上帝之名和荣耀 God's Name and Glory have existence
是哪种情况 Capital N, capital G
只是一种礼貌的叫法 To give you a hint
还是已经假设 On Wednesday, we'll look at Justin Martyr
上帝之名和荣耀都是存在的 He will say, ancient Christians will say
名和荣耀都是专有名词 Of course the Name and Glory exist as things
给大家个提示 Capital N, capital G
周三 当我们讲到殉道士犹斯丁 Another way of saying the Name of God
他会说 古代基督徒说 Another way of saying the Glory of God
当然上帝之名和荣耀都是实际存在的 is to say Christ
名和荣耀都作为专有名词 When confronted by that argument
另外一种说上帝之名的方式 Ancient Jews of course have to say
另外一种说上帝的荣耀的方式 No, no, no
就是基督 It's just the Name of God
面对这个争论 Just the Glory of God
古代犹太人当然会说 You are over interpreting it
不 不 不 You are reading too much out of it
只是上帝之名 It's just of course not
只是上帝的荣耀 Until medieval Jews came along
你们过度解读了 Medieval Jews also will start
你们把意思解释过头了 to develop theories that
肯定不是这样的 there is a something called the Name of God
直到中世纪犹太人出现 which has its own life and history
中世纪犹太人也开始 its own power, separate from God, part of God
发展自己的理论 separate from God at the same time
有一种东西叫做上帝之名 sort of the way Christ relates to God
有自己的生活和历史 It's the way Name and Glory
有自己的力量 和上帝分开 又是上帝的一部分 will work in medieval Jewish mysticism
又同时是和上帝分开来的 But that century is down the road
有点像基督和上帝的关系 So as I summarized here
这就是中世纪犹太人神秘主义中 Do God's Name and Glory
关于上帝之名和荣耀的解释方法 have existence independent of God?
但是这是几个世纪后的事情了 Christians will say yes
我总结一下 Ancient Jews will say no
上帝之名和荣耀 Some medieval Jews will say yes
是真实的 独立于上帝的存在吗 Last point, then I'll stop this thing
基督徒认为是 Move on to next point
古代犹太人认为不是 In medieval Jewish theology
一些中世纪犹太人认为是 This mysterious Name
最后一点 然后我会讲完这个话题 Capital N, capital G of God
继续讲下一个要点 The medievals will take this idea
在中世纪犹太人的神学中 and run with it
上帝的神秘的名字 They'll start to talk about power of God
上帝之名与荣耀 the wisdom of God
中世纪犹太人会在这个观点之上 or God's mercy
继续发展 God's justice
他们开始谈论上帝的力量 What do these concepts mean?
上帝的智慧 Do these things have existence
上帝的仁慈 outside God himself?
上帝的公正 Or they are simply another way of saying God
这些概念是什么意思 These will become the medieval theory
这些东西真的 of divine attributes
存在于上帝之外吗 That will be devil
或者只是另外一种称呼上帝的方式 medieval Muslins and Jews no end
这些会成为中世纪的神学中 Trying to figure out
神的属性 can you use such words such as
这会折磨着 Wisdom of God
中世纪的穆斯林 犹太人 没有尽头 What does that mean?
想要弄明白 Okay, luckily for us, that's not for us
可以使用这种说法吗 比如 If you are interested in this
上帝的智慧 Read Book 1 of the Guide for the Perplexed
这是什么意思 by Maimonides
幸运的是 我们不需要解决这个问题 That will keep you busy
如果你对这个感兴趣 Okay, questions
读一读迷途指津的第一部 Do you understand what's going on here?
作者是迈蒙尼德 Shall I repeat once again
需要花很多时间来读 We are in deep waters here
好了 有问题吗 It's pretty obvious
你们明白我讲的是什么吗 we are assuming deep waters, yes?
我需要再重复一遍吗 Okay, so first exercise looked up was
我们讲的是很深奥的内容 Angels, are they beings separate from God
很明显 or just another way of saying God?
我们讲的是很深奥的内容 对吧 Similarly, God in the temple
所以我们首先讲的是 Who were once in the temple
天使 一种和上帝分开来的生灵 Is it God himself?
或者只是另外一种称呼上帝的方式 Or is it some extension of God's
类似地 圣殿中的上帝 mysteriously is part of God
是谁曾经在圣殿之中 yet separate from God
是上帝自己吗 Is it a thing in its own right
还是上帝的某些延伸 and yet is God at the same time
神秘的上帝的一部分 And that brings us to
然而和上帝分开来 Philo and the Logos
有自己力量的存在 and that brings us to the Creation
而且和上帝同时存在 I'll stop here
这就引出了 Questions?
斐洛和道 You don't have questions only because
引出了创世 you are overwhelmed by this material
我先停一下 or you don't know what it start
有问题吗 But if you don't have questions
你们没有问题只是因为 on this material, then
你们被这些材料淹没了 Anyway
或者不知道从何问起 Questions?
但是如果你们没有 Alright
关于这部分的问题 I'll give you something
总之 which you should have questions on
有问题吗 I guarantee you
好吧 Okay, let's talk about Philo and the Logos
我会讲一些 Creation
你们肯定会有问题的东西 The theories of philosophical problem
我保证 for all these philosopher types, like David
好了 我们开始讲斐洛和道 is of course divine creation
创世 God created the world
对于所有的哲学家们来说 Let's just back up for a second
比如David 有一个严肃的哲学问题 In Genesis 1, God creates the world
当然是神创论 Genesis 1:1, the very first page of the Scripture
上帝创造世界 God created heaven and earth
咱们先来回顾一下 And Chapter 1 of Genesis describes
创世记第1章 上帝创造世界 the process of creation
创世记第1章第1节 圣经的第1页 So of Genesis 1 we have singular verbs
(希伯来语) God is a singular noun
神创造天地 you know, plural in form
创世记第1章描写了 But grammatically speaking a singular noun
创造的过程 governs singular verb
在创世记第1章用的是单数 Until we gets to the sixth day of creation
上帝是单数名词 which is the climax of the creation
在形式上是复数 cos Sabbath is something that's sui generis
但是从语法上说是单数名词 Sixth day of creation, God creates humans
因此动词也用单数 Adam, first human
一直到创世的第六天 Verse Chapter 1 verse 26 to 28
是创世的高潮部分 Chapter 1 verse 26 throws us a curve ball
因为安息日是自成一类的 It says, and God said
创世的第六天 上帝创造了人 Singular verb
亚当 第一个人 Let us make Adam, plural verb
第1章第26节到28节 in our image, plural suffix
第1章第26节问题来了 and in our likeness
这一节 神说 And all ancient Jews and Christians stumbled
单数动词 when they read that verse and said, huh?
我们来造亚当 复数动词 Why all of a sudden are we shifting
照着我们的形象 复数后缀 from the singular of
按着我们的样式 the entire rest of the chapter to plural?
所有古代犹太人和基督徒都迷糊了 Does this mean then
他们读了这段然后说 什么 the creation of humans God had helped?
为什么突然之间从单数 There was something else there
变成了复数 alongside God?
而这一章其他部分也都是复数 And if so, what was it?
这是不是意味着 So Scripture itself in Genesis
上帝创造人类的时候有帮手 Just goes on its merry way
有其他什么东西 But later Jews and Christians
在上帝身旁 will read this and will spend
如果有 那么是什么 endless amounts of intellectual energy
圣经在创世记这一章 trying to understand
只是愉快地写下去 what does this mean, 1:26
但是之后的犹太人和基督徒 Let us make Adam in our image
读了这段以后会 Who's we?
用掉无数的脑细胞 Who's us?
想要弄明白 Okay, if you look at the notes of JSB
第1章第26节是什么意思 Of course JSB has none of these
我们照着我们的形象造亚当 romantic speculation stuff
我们是谁 It simply says
我们是谁 is God consulting with his divine council
如果你看犹太学习圣经的注释 Divine council? See earlier statement
当然犹太学习圣经没有这些 God is a king
浪漫的想象内容 So he has a throne and he has got a council
只是简单地说 So the rest of the world
上帝在和他的神圣顾问协商 God could do himself
神圣顾问 参照我们之前的说法 When it comes to Adam
上帝是国王 the climax of creation
他有王座也有顾问 he consults his members of divine council
所以世界的其他部分 whom later Jews would call angels
上帝可以自己创造 And if you object
当涉及到创造亚当 But where the angels come from?
是创世的高潮部分 Where does divine council come from?
他和他的神圣顾问协商 How come they are unintroduced in the text?
也就是后来犹太人所说的天使 They are just there all of a sudden
如果你反对 Good question
天使是从哪里来的 I cannot answer that question
这些神圣的顾问从哪里来的 That's how the JSB understands what this is
为什么在圣经里面完全没有提到 And we all agree it's an interesting problem
为什么会突然就出现了 But now comes the real philosophical problem
很棒的问题 Philosophical problem is not just
我没有办法回答 that we shift from singular to plural
这就是犹太学习圣经对此的理解 when it comes to creation of Adam and humanity
我们都同意这是个有趣的问题 The real problem is
但是真正的哲学问题是 God created the world at all
哲学问题不仅仅是 Isn't God ineffable, transcendent
当创造亚当和人类的时候 immutable and immovable?
圣经描述从单数变成了复数 If you are a student of Aristotle
真正的问题是 you know of course that God is ineffable
上帝有没有创造这个世界 i.e., cannot be fully expressed in language
上帝不是不可言喻的 超然的 God is transcendent
不能变和不可变的吗 God is above the world
如果你学过亚里斯多德 God contains the world
你会知道当然上帝是不可言喻的 God is immutable
也就是说 没办法用语言完整表达 You and I are mutable, we change
上帝是超然的 We decay
上帝高于这个世界 we die
上帝包含着这个世界 But God is immutable
上帝的不能变的 And God is immovable
你和我是易变的 我们会改变 God does not move
我们会衰败 You and I move
我们会死 Which means in philosophical language for
但是上帝是不能变的 change
上帝是不可变的 One day we are happy
上帝不会移动 One day we are sad
你和我才会移动 We get tall, we get short
也就是哲学语言里面说的 Right, my hair falls out
改变 Things happen, we change
有时候开心 God, of course, is immutable
有时候难过 Cos God is God
长高 变矮 God is not human
头发脱落 So now it comes to this question
各种事情 我们会改变 as I've already intermited earlier
上帝 当然是不可变的 with Maimonides
上帝是上帝 As we ask Maimonides
上帝不是人类 how you are supposed to pray
所以问题来了 to this kind of God
我之前在讲迈蒙尼德的时候 how to you cozy up to this kind of God
已经提到了 But the prior question would be
我们问迈蒙尼德 And Maimonides himself
你怎么样才能 is fully aware of the power of this question
向这样的上帝祈祷 How does this God relate to humans?
你怎么样取悦这样的上帝 How does this God relate to us
但是前提是 Us people who live in the world
迈蒙尼德自己 Well, we do live in the world of decay
已经完全知道了这个问题的力量 We do live in the world of motion, of change
这样的上帝如何和人类联系起来 We do live in the world of death
这样的上帝怎么样和我们联系起来 We do live in the world of matter
我们住在这个世界上 So how do you get from that God to this world
我们住在这个会衰败的世界上 How could we imagine that God
住在这个会移动 会改变的世界上 all of a sudden
在这个会死去的世界上 One day there is no world
在这个物质的世界上 And in the next day
你怎么样能说通上帝和世界的关系呢 that God creates the world
我们怎么能把上帝想象成 When we've just said
突然之间 This God is immutable and immovable
一开始还没有世界 That is a very powerful philosophical question
到了第二天 If, if you've read the premise
上帝就创造了世界 that God is ineffable transcendent
我们刚刚说过 immutable and immovable
这个上帝的不能变也是不可变的 you read that premise
这是个非常有力的哲学问题 Then you got a problem
如果你考虑了前提 Then creation is a philosophical problem
上帝是不可言喻 超然的 By creation I mean
不能变也不可变的 All the creation of everything that follows from it
你考虑了这个前提 The idea that God creates the world and runs it
就遇到问题了 The idea that God exercise
创世是个哲学问题 benevolent presence of the world
我说的创世是 The idea that God cares about the world
上帝创造了天地万物 The idea that God gets angry
上帝创造了并且管理着世界的想法 God gets happy, God gets sad, right
上帝会忙于 That God rewards, punishes
仁慈地出现在这个世界的想法 God does all of these things
上帝在乎这个世界的想法 All those ideas becomes philosophically problematic
上帝会生气 when you just established
上帝会高兴 上帝会悲伤的想法 that God is immutable
上帝会奖励 会惩罚 God does not change
上帝会做所有这些事情 God does not move
所有这些想法在哲学上都出现了问题 So how do you solve that problem, class?
你刚刚说了 Well, look at the notes in the JSB
上帝是不能变的 The real answer is
上帝是不会改变的 The Hebrew Bible does not
上帝是不会移动的 conceive of God in this way
你们要怎么解决这个问题 同学们 The Hebrew Bible does not conceive of God
看看犹太学习圣经的注释 in this philosophical highfalutin way
真正的答案是 It conceives of God really
希伯来圣经没有 in much more human terms
把上帝设想成是这样的 God has a body, God has a form
希伯来圣经没有把上帝设想成 God gets angry, God gets sad
哲学上相当夸张的形象 God walks and talks
而其实把上帝设想成 It has no problem with this
基本上是人类的样子 But, ssssh
上帝有身体 上帝有形态 That's just between me
上帝会生气 上帝会悲伤 and you and the JSB
上帝行走言谈 Right, but otherwise
就完全没有问题了 If you are philosophical minded
不过 嘘 you know you get a giant problem
你知我知 How do you solve the problem?
犹太学习圣经知 Philo, who we met before a couple of times
但是另外 Jewish philosopher, Alexandria
如果你使用哲学方式思考 4th century of that era
你就会遇到一个巨大的问题 the contemporary of Paul
你怎么样解决这个问题呢 a little older than Paul, for a century
斐洛 我们之前也遇到过几次了 Philo solves the problem
犹太哲学家 亚历山大 by the theory of the divine logos
公元四世纪 God creates the world through speech
和保罗在同一时期 The word is often mistranslated Word
比保罗晚一些 晚了一个世纪 It's not the word
斐洛通过神的道(Logos)的理论 That's terrible translation
解决了这个问题 It means speech
上帝通过说话的道创造了世界 Well I attempted to say, mind
Logos总被误译成词句 Reason, thought
不是词句 And in Philo, it is those logos
翻译得很差 These mysterious things
是说话的道 If it is a thing at all
我倾向于说 思想 I know what noun to use, right
道理 想法 Which is, is God separate from God
斐洛认为 是这些道 Part of God, an aspect of God
这些神奇的存在 It will, whatever it is
如果不是存在 Flits back and forth
我不知道应该用什么词 between the divine realm above
也就是和上帝分开来 and the sublunary world
是上帝的一部分 是上帝的一方面 the world of matter, of people, of decay below
就是这个东西 That's the Logos
在两个世界之间传播 Doesn't completely solve the problem
高高在上的神的世界 But allows Philo
和我们人类的世界 and all later thinkers who follows this lead
物质的 人的 衰退的世界 Jews and Christians alike
这就是道 to keep protect
并没有完全解决问题 the philosophical purity of God up here
但是斐洛 And at the same time figure out a way
和之后那些认同这一观点的思想家 to get from up here down to here
犹太人和基督徒一样 The answer is, logos, speech
都在保护 And Philo has what's throughout on Genesis 1
这种上帝高高在上的哲学上的纯净 How does the God create the world in Genesis 1?
同时也要想出办法 The answer is God speaks
让上帝降临到人间 This verb appears 10 times in Genesis 1
答案就是 道 说话的道 Right, God said, God said, God said
斐洛的理论贯穿着创世记第1章 It's speech
在创世记第1章上帝怎么创造的世界 That God brings the realm of being
答案是上帝说话 It's not carpenter takes out a saw or hammer
这个动词在创世记第1章出现了10词 God speaks the world into existence
上帝说 上帝说 上帝说 Therefore Philo is the clue
说话的道 that means that the divine speech
上帝由此创造了世界 that serves as the way
不是木匠用锯和锤子 for God to maintain his godness over here
上帝通过说话创造了世界 at the same time
因此斐洛给大家的暗示是 brings the world into existence over here
神的说话的道 As well as the mysterious verb bara
满足了这个条件 Last point
上帝保持了高高在上的神性 This verb appears several times in Genesis 1
同时又 In Hebrew Bible, the word bara
创造了下面的人类世界 Translate create
还有一个神秘的动词bara is always and only used with God
最后一点 You and I don't create something with bara
这个词在创世记第1章出现了很多次 We do other things
希伯来语中bara这个词 We paint, we cut, we charge
翻译成创造 We are aware of what we are doing
总是而且只用在上帝身上 We don't do bara
你和我不会用bara这个词来创造东西 Only God does bara
我们做一些事情 In other words, God's mode of creation
我们画画 我们切东西 我们改变 is qualitatively different from yours and mine
我们知道我们在做什么 So maybe these are clues that
我们不会用bara the authors of Genesis 1
只有上帝才会用bara already were aware of these issues
换句话说 上帝的创造模式 I don't know, I don't wanna go there, right?
是本质上不同于你我的模式的 But I can see Philo already
所以可能这些线索 is fully aware of these problems
是创世记第1章的作者 Philo was trying to say
已经发现了这些问题 Well, we have God
我不知道 我不想这样想 we have the world
但是我看到斐洛已经 we have creation
注意到了这个问题 Go back to Genesis 1:26
斐洛想要说 What does it mean when God says
我们有上帝 let us make Adam in our image?
我们有这个世界 What God is saying
我们有创世 Is God speaking with the logos?
回到创世记第1章第26节 God and the logos are saying together
当上帝说我们要照着我们的形象 Let us make Adam in our image
来造亚当是什么意思 Cos the image of Adam
上帝说的是 Adam is our image of God
上帝通过道说话 Not in the body
上帝和道一同说话 Adam is the image of God in the mind
照着我们的形象来造亚当 Cos that's what makes humans human
因为亚当的形象 Does that God have a big toe?
亚当是我们上帝的形象 Right? Is that God is mind
不是身体的形象 Or logos, speech, reason
而且是上帝思想的形象 That's Philo
因为这才使得人成为人 Okay, so a couple of hands pops up
上帝有大脚趾头吗 Yes, sir?
那是上帝的思想 But you said that Philo is treating speech
或者道 说话的道 道理 on this other than on the intermediaries?
这就是斐洛的理论 Absolutely
好了 有好几个人举手了 You figured out where I was going with this
请说 Yes, so now the logos is one of these
你说斐洛把说话的道 mysterious hypostatized things
当成比媒介更高一级的东西 Things, such a tactical term, right
完全正确 I don't have other words to use
你明白了我所讲的内容了 Later on, Christians will say persons
是的 道就是其中一个 Cos for Christians of course
神秘的具体化的存在 Logos also is Christ
存在 非常狡猾的词语 as we'll see on Wednesday, right
我不知道还能用什么词了 So it's also an aspect of God
后来基督徒会说人 A being, not a being
因为对基督徒说 Part of God, separate from God
道就是基督 All the same time
我们在周三会讲到 Yes
这也是上帝的一方面 So how can the JSB conceive of God
是生灵 不是生灵 in like, having a body
上帝的一部分 和上帝不一样 and having some parts of
都同时发生 one of these main intensively Judaism
请问 Is that like, just like, you know
犹太学习圣经怎么能把上帝想象成 Okay, good, it's not the JSB
是有身体的 The JSB are Bible scholars
还有一些 trying to make sense out of the text
还有一些激进的犹太主义者 in its original contextual meaning
就像是 你懂的 And they would say
很好 这不是犹太学习圣经说的 I think you are correct
犹太学习圣经是圣经学者 That the authors of the Torah
想要让圣经在原始语境中 Be that Moses if you wish
能说通文本的意思 Or be that a bunch of later priestly authors
他们会说 and writers centuries later
我想你是对的 I don't care
Torah的作者 Whoever wrote it
你可以说是摩西 They did not read Aristotle
或者之后的一些祭司 They never read the Timaeus of Plato, right
在几个世纪后写的 They had no conception of this God in this way
我不关心 They conceive of God
不管是谁写的 in much more human terms
他们都没有读过亚里斯多德 and if you say, philosophically speaking
他们没读过柏拉图的提马亚斯 We got to hold to them
他们对于上帝的这种形式完全没有概念 sat down with them
他们把上帝 Do they "really" believe
想象成是人类的样子 God to be just like you and me, only bigger?
如果你说 从哲学上说 Or do they actually have
我们要支持他们 a completely different conception of God
勉强接受他们 This is the way they spoke
他们真的相信 This is the way they wrote
上帝就是你我的样子 只是大一些 I cannot answer that question
或者他们真的 Cos we don't have access to the information
对上帝有完全不同的概念 We don't know
他们就是这样说 So by the JSB, I mean
他们就是这样写 They would argue this is
我没法回答这个问题 the simple plain meaning of Scripture
因为我们没法获得这些信息 Not as our Aristotle stuff
我们不知道 Okay [Rhine & trismile Production]
所以犹太学习圣经里面
会说这只是
圣经的字面意思
而不是我们的亚里斯多德理论
就讲到这里 [Rhine & trismile Production]