教授:好 首先 我们要讲的是 Professor: Alright, so we'll start
上一次课我们讲到了...... I think the last thing we did was...
PPT上都有记录 这里 大家看看 No, I just wrote that. Yeah it was, look at this amongst
这就是上次课我们结束的地方 that was the last thing we did, right, watch the amongst
我们在这里讲到了它们之间的这些差异 We have talked about the differences in the room
我当时说过父母的养育是如何 And I was talking about how parenting
我们讨论不同养育方式所带来的影响 you know we talked about how the difference in form lies towards
比如独裁 权威 父母的养育方式 authoritarian, authoritative, types of parenting
我还讲了如何使养育更有意义 更有成效 And I was talking about how...make the point that
因为过去最为常用的方式 that it used to be more common
仅仅只是对父母进行育儿培训 to simply do parenting training
回到六七十年代 you know with these kids with problems
如果一个孩子存在问题 back in the 70's or 60's
父母要做正确的行为训练 to do straight-up behavioral training of parents
比如要经常表扬孩子 管教孩子 like praising kids, disciplining kids
然后一整套的系统方法就出来了 and then the whole thing with system approach came
其实很大一部分原因 Part of the reason, or a big part, the main part of the reason
我认为是所采用的家庭系统方法 I think is family systems approach took on
比如在心理学界很流行的一个说法 like it got so popular in the world of psychology
其实是因为孩子所处的家庭环境的改变 is because of changes in the family environment
美国的千家万户 That constellation of families in America
在过去的50年里经历了巨大的改变 has changed greatly over the last 50 years
比如电影《反斗小宝贝》中的模范家庭 So, for example, Leave it to Beaver H ome
也就是一对父母和两个健康成长的孩子 that means two parents married and intact, two plus kids
在六十年代的美国这种家庭模式占了一半 In 1960 that represented 50% of the kid households in America
一对父母和至少两个孩子共享天伦 Intact, married couples, with two or more kids
那么到了1993年这种家庭模式占多大比例呢 1993, I've gotten wise that you guys are going to
我猜你们要高估了 其实只有11% have the answers for a lot of these, only 11%
所以10年前 13年前 So, 10, 13 years ago
仅是过了43年这种家庭却减少了5倍 five times less than what we had over a period of 43 years
这是一个相当急剧的变化 That's a pretty drastic change between these
另外一个是新婚不久又离婚的家庭 Newlyweds who've been divorced
大家可能听过这种说法 半数的婚姻... probably have heard this, about half of them
事实上我提到过...... In fact you know, I've talked to...
几年前 一个女孩从高中毕业 a number of years ago, this woman from high school
她很漂亮也很受欢迎 who was like, she was beautiful, and, like, popular
我在大学的时候没和她怎么说过话 and she, I had not talked to her in college
倒是毕业几年后有看见过她 but saw her a few years after college
过去的某一段时间她和一个男人交往 And she had been dating this guy for a while
几年后就结婚了 a couple of years, got married
但是结婚之后有个现象是 but then after they got married
有些夫妇有时会 大多数不会 you sometimes see this. Well, not often but sometimes
就是一旦结婚了夫妻一方尤其是男性 that once you get married, people, like guys in particular
在男女关系中跟婚前有很大的改变 kind of changes the nature of the relationship
人的另一面就会暴露出来 and the kinds of sides of people you see
她的这个男人就变得暴力 像乱扔东西 And so this guy got violent, like throwing things
我不知道她有没有真的被他打过 I don't know if she actually got hit by this guy or not
但是她是这样描述的 but she described to me kind of like it
有一次我碰到她 谈起这些 when I was talking to her one time, met up with her
他在家里乱扔乱砸 like throwing things, he was throwing things
所以她在他们婚后两年 So she ended up in a divorce rather quickly
就果断的结局了这场婚姻 only about two years after they got married
但是他们在一起的还是有几年的时间 but they had been going out for several years
她对我说过 我很肯定 and she said he was, I mean I'm sure
他并不是完全的有暴力倾向 it's not that he wasn't totally un-not-volatile
只是在婚后他把某些潜在的东西升级了 but in terms of taking it to the next level in their relationship
所以可能婚姻会让你有另一些的新的看法 So, sometimes you do see, kind of new things
可能刚结婚时某些人会充满安全感但是...... from the getting married in the time, security somebody feels in that
离婚 每天都在上演 Well so there's a lot of divorcing that goes on
离婚会造成影响吗？答案是肯定的 Does that have an effect? Well obviously it does
这里我要通过这个视频来进行讲解 and I'll just talk about that with this video here
视频:托马斯和汤普森这两个孩子太小了 Video: Thomas and Jason Thompson were too young to realize
还没有意识到父母已经不在一起了 mommy and daddy weren't together anymore
你什么时候意识到的? When did you realize that?
我当时感到很难过 It makes me feel very sad
杰森刚出生不久他们就离婚了 The parents divorced soon after Jason was born
我过去(听不清) I was (INAUDIBLE)
我认为我有努力维持过我们的婚姻 so I guess I'm raise him for the time
鼓励他敞开心扉 不要深藏心里 and make him open up and spit it out
这也是我为什么必须要坐在这儿的原因 And that's why I am hoping to be there for him
玛丽和汤姆共同承担起对这两个孩子的监护 Mary and Tom, share custody of their two boys
像其它成千上万的这样的家庭一样 And like thousands of other couples
他们正慢慢的学着如何扮演好父母的角色 slowly they are learning what it means to co-parent
一个不乐观的数据是半数的婚姻都以离婚告终 The sad statistics are about half of all marriages end in divorce
要是有孩子的加入 后果就是灾难性的 and with children involved, the fallout can be devastating
除非夫妻双方能摒弃前嫌 unless parents put aside their own differences
保证把孩子的需要放在第一位 and see to it that the kid's needs come first
至少有一点我们能达成共识 That's one thing we can see eye to eye on
那就是我们都深爱着我们的孩子 is because we both love them so much
我不会说这是一件很容易的事 I'm not going to said it's an easy thing to do
我们都试图重建起属于彼此独立的生活 Both of us are trying to rebuild our own separate lives
不再想以前和过去 away from what we had
但是同时因为一些现实的问题 but at the same time
托马斯出现了一些问题 我们又不得不聚在一起 we're forced back together on a daily basis
要经历这些婚姻家庭的变动是很困难的 with Thomas changes, and it's difficult
尽管这样但是双方都认为值得 but it's worth it though
他们不住在一起 So living apart
他们共同努力 they are working together to help their boys
帮助孩子保存家的感觉 hold onto a sense of family
我们都很诚心的感谢对方所做的这些 We are truly thankful for these
也吸取了很多教训 耶稣 阿门 and many lessons. We ask in Jesus' name, Amen
托马斯在名为 彩虹 的支援小组中 Thomas also found comfort
也找到了家的舒适和支持 in a support group called Rainbows
每一个故事都有结局和开端 So with every ending there's a beginning
鼓励孩子们说出他们对离婚的内心感受 Which encourages children to express their feelings about divorce
他们简单的几句话会是每位父母的经验和教训 their simple statements are lessons to every parent
我感到最为困难的就是当我爸爸离开时 The hardest thing was when my dad left
我感觉好像是自己做错了什么 I felt like I did something wrong
我不喜欢从爸爸那儿回来 I don't like it how when I just come back from my Dad's house
我是说我在那里玩得很开心 and I say I had a really good time
我不喜欢妈妈的那一套 I don't like it how my mom goes
如果她爱爸爸比爱我爱得更多 well why don't you live with him if you love him
为什么不和他住在一起呢 more than you love me
我经历过这些 我知道它的滋味 I've been through this, and I know what it feels like
这种感觉并不好 and it doesn't feel good
但是什么是最为持久的影响 But what are the lasting effects
专家们持不同的意见 家庭治疗师 experts disagree. Family therapist
和定期脱口秀节目主持劳拉·施莱辛格 and regular talk show host Laura Schlessinger
说到很多父母并不认为后果有多严重 says many parents don't think hard enough about the consequences
但是有足够的研究证明 There's been enough research which indicates
父母离异 that there's a higher percentage of a lot of problems
会给孩子带来许多问题 when there's divorce for the children
在学校和家里表现存在很多问题 Problems in school, problems in their house
心理的问题 problems with their psyche
成长及承诺问题 problems with they grow up and make commitments
长大后他们离婚的概率也比较大等等这些问题 a greater chance that they'll be the divorced and so on
社会学家Constance Ahrons Sociologist Constance Ahrons
她是《好聚好散》这本书的作者 is the author of the book The Good Divorce
她声称有办法不伤害到孩子让他们健康成长 She contends there are ways for children to heal and to move on
任何一对夫妻离异 For any parent that divorces
都要求双方对孩子尽到养育的责任 the divorce requires both parents to be a parent to the kids
在某种程度上都要彼此付出 and to do so in a way
而不是不断的把问题和冲突加诸在孩子身上 that is not problems and conflicts constantly with kids in the middle
孩子不应是新的冲突来源 It's not just a conflict
孩子要成为一个缓冲带 it's just that the children are being used as pawns
普遍认为 There is general agreement
离异的父母有必要加深对他们自身的教育 that divorcing parents need to be more educated
让他们了解自己的孩子将会面临什么 about what their children may be going through
现在有几个州要求像马里兰州这样的研讨会 Several states now require seminars like this one in Maryland
成年人倾听离异孩子的心声 in which adults listen to children of divorced
分享他们的个人体验 通常是痛苦的故事 and share personal and often painful stories
说到我的爸爸 Here comes my dad
他对着我妈妈大喊大叫 And he's screaming and yelling at my mom
他吓唬我吼道 and he's scaring me and he says
好 这些孩子跟我走 okay, those kids are coming with me
就好像他们 It's like, they were
要抛弃我了 turning their back on me with them
这很糟糕 我把他们两个都推开了 It's bad and I pushed both of them
我不再像以前那样做了 I have which ended up
他们抛弃了我 我也抛弃了他们 I've been doing with my dad and doing it for me
要努力和你的孩子相处 否则会导致 always gotta work hard with your kids, cause otherwise
他们所说的话给人留下深刻的印象 Their words leave impressions
和大多数离异家庭的孩子一样 like most children in divorce
这两个聪明的孩子 the boys' biggest wish
最大的愿望就是父母能破镜重圆 is that their parents will get back together
我希望爸爸能回来 I wish that he would move back
我相信他们是这么想的 I think they are
这种情况下的孩子一心想的就是这事 All children in this situation wish that more than anything
这让他们很伤心 It breaks their hearts
尤其是对我们刚刚生下来的小儿子而言 Especially for the little one
他肯定很难接受这个事实 it must be very hard
因为在暑假无论什么天气 because in holiday, rain or shine
就是为了让他们觉得 Just for them to feel
无论他们的父母在哪里 that regardless of where their dad and mom are
他们都会被人喜爱和认可 they are loved, and accepted for who they are
我认为这是最为关键的 And I think that's the key
安娜·费伊 亚特兰大CNN报道 Anna Fay, CNN Atlanta
教授:你们知道劳拉·施莱辛格吗? Prof:Do you guys know Laura Schlessinger here ?
知道她是谁吗？ do you know who she was?
她接受过采访 你知道 The one person that was interviewed, you do
学生:她做了一个电台节目 Audience: She did a radio show
教授:现在还有这个节目吗? Professor: I am, she came. Does she still have the show?
学生:是的 Audience: Yeah
教授:噢 我不知道 Professor: Oh, I didn't know that
我以为在几年前她已经消失了 I thought she disappeared a few years ago
我不知道她还在活动 Oh okay, I didn't know that, she was still around, okay
说到离婚就不得不说到它对孩子造成的影响 In terms of divorce, people talk about the impacts it has on kids
几天前我们有提到一些 We talked a little bit about some of these things the other day
一般认为离婚会对孩子有直接的...... People talk about divorce having direct
心理学家认为离婚对孩子有直接和间接的影响 psychologists say, direct and indirect effects
直接影响就是指那些明显的事件 Direct effects meaning kind of things that are apparent
就是离婚一旦成为事实 and like immediately apparent about what's going on
马上会伴随而来的事情 when the divorce occurs
比如父母为争夺监护权的冲突 So for example, parents yelling, conflict over custody
因为这个他们会在家里燃起战火 and yelling because of that
压力就很明显了 Stress that's easily seen by the parent
孩子就能很明显的感受到家里的紧张氛围 I mean in the parent by the children
父母之间的冲突 The conflict between Mom and Dad
如果是一个冲突不断的婚姻 their modeling of yelling at each other
典型的就是彼此争吵不休 if it's a yelling and conflicted situation
所以这是通常会遇到的情况 So there's things kind of that often times
孩子无法避免会暴露到这种环境下 kind of necessarily get the kids exposed to
其实孩子们不一定就要遭受这种待遇的 that they otherwise wouldn't necessarily get exposure to
尽管我们会讲到有很多这样的家庭 although as we've talk about a lot of those families
冲突的第一步就是吵闹不休 were conflicted for yelling in the first place
但是这不是离婚引起的争吵 So it's not that divorced caused that
这是离婚引起的间接影响 But then also indirect effects
一些类似这样的事件会发生 and those are the things that kind of occur
这是离婚导致的次要后果 kind of secondary consequences of the divorce
就像前几天我提到过的 and like I mentioned the other day
比如 父亲会减少对孩子的控制 like for examples, fathers becoming less controlling over their kids
也可能是母亲 it could be moms or dads
尤其是父亲可能会觉得很糟糕 with dads in particular feeling bad maybe
不会体会孩子要遭受多少影响 about how much the kids are going through
所以他们就更少...... and so they're less
选择逃避多一点 kind of let them get away with things a little bit more
减少对孩子的控制 Less controlling of kids that way
或者就简单的监视 Or simply monitoring, you know so the divorce occurred
一旦离婚 通常83%的妈妈会得到监护权 and then all of a sudden, mom, who gets custody 83% of the time
突然一下她变成了单亲妈妈 all of a sudden she's a single parent
突然变成了单亲家庭 It's a single parent home
谁来照看放学后的孩子 And so who's watching the kids in the afternoon
所以监视 孩子控制的减少 So monitoring, kind of as a consequence of less monitoring
也是离婚所导致的一个后果 as a consequence of the divorce
这个后果会对孩子造成影响 that then kind of has an effect on the kids
收入也成了一个很大的问题 Income is a big one
我说过妈妈通常会得到监护权 Mom is typically making, like I said, typically gets custody
由于离婚的影响 要照顾孩子 Mom is getting 50–75% less income to take care of the kids
妈妈的收入通常会比原来减少到50-75% as consequences of the divorce
当然收入的减少会引来很多问题 and of course income can mean a lot of different things
日托的质量 像我们视频里看到的那个小孩子 Quality of daycare as we read about for little ones
尤其人们还努力想把孩子送到私人学校 You know, people are trying to send them to private schools
会让这个家庭不堪重负 stressing the family
收入的变动还会给家庭加诸不同的压力 different things about income that leads to stress in the family
比如类似孩子参加学校课后辅导班的机会等等 Opportunities for the kids for after school programs, things like that
所以通常会导致这些间接影响 So in indirect effects, that are kind of typically occur
但这仅是离婚的后果所造成的一些硬性影响 but just the consequences of the divorce causing certain things
通常还有一种影响人们称之为是危机情绪 Typically there's a crisis mood, people call it crisis mood
离婚后这种危机情绪至少要折磨他们一年 for at least a year where it's inflicted after a divorce
然后就会慢慢缓和 and then it kind of often smoothes out after that
但是很难有一个完全没有战火的离婚 but it's difficult to have a completely unconflicted divorce
即使有也是在律师介入孩子的监护权争论 I mean, it happens, but it's just hard after custody discussions
类似这些事情结束之后 lawyer involvement ,and things like that
就离婚对更小的孩子造成的影响而言 In terms of impacts of divorce on younger kids
离婚造成的后果会更加严重 They're seen as having greater reactions to divorce
比如单亲的孩子负面行为可以由很多原因导致 in terms of negative behaviors, and that's for a couple of reasons
但其中最为常见的一个就是父母离异 One is often they think they're responsible for the divorce
有限的认知能力让他们很迷惑 They wonder, because their cognitive abilities are limited
他们可能会认为父母的离婚是自己做错了什么 they wonder what they did to kind of cause the divorce
他们当然也有这种 They also have kind of this
前期 一些具体思维方式 Pre-operational stage of, kind of concrete way of thinking
只是他们不能理解 They don't have the ability to understand
要运转维系一段关系的复杂性 the complexities of what it takes to make a relationship work
你们刚看到的视频里的那个小孩子 So you saw the little kid in the video
别人问他你希望发生什么? saying well, what do you want to happen?
我希望爸爸妈妈能重归于好 Well I want mommy and daddy to get back together
可能同那些离异家庭的青少年也一样 Now that maybe true of adolescents
他们也希望自己的父母能破镜重圆 of family parents who divorce as well
但是通常青少年对此的理解要深入一点 but often adolescents have a more understanding that
他们会认为父母在一起时会争吵 well, they argue when they get together
他们可能是性格不和导致的 or they are just, there's a personality difference there
只要从中调和不让争吵发生就可以了 it's there it's just not going to happen between mom and dad
他们是这样一种想法 这样一种理解 And that kind of thinking, that kind of that understanding
性格和稳定性 Personalities and stability
个性的发展阶段是介于8到10岁之间 personality kind of develops between like 8 and 10 years old
所以相比于年幼的儿童对整件事情的理解 So you see adolescents thinking much more
青少年能想得更深一点 along the lines of that than younger children do
一个很有趣的例子 这和离婚无关 Kind of a funny example, it's not related to divorce exactly
我给你们讲过几个我侄子亚伦的故事 but like my, I've told you several stories about my nephew Aaron
几年前我和一个女人交往 Like, a few years ago I had been going out with this woman
我们相识后交往过几年 for several years after we met
但是我和她从来没有正式在一起生活过 and she and I had never lived together
但是我的侄儿亚伦曾经见过她几次 but she, Aaron my nephew had met her several times
他当时还在上幼儿园 who was in kindergarten at the time
有一次在一个婚宴上 and then, so one time we were at a wedding reception
当时只有我 没有艾琳娜 and I was there but Elena wasn't there
亚伦就这样问我 艾琳娜在哪儿?我说 and Aaron's like where's Elena? And I'm like, well
戴夫叔叔和艾琳娜已经不再是特殊朋友了 Uncle Dave and Elena aren't special friends anymore
但是当时他还没转过弯来 And he's like oh, and that was it
当时我们在排队用餐然后回到桌上 we were in like a line for the buffet and we get back to the table
5分钟后我们说了一些别的东西 about five minutes later we were talking about something else
谈着谈着安静了一会儿 and then there's like a lull in the conversation
然后他说 叔叔 你可以和我们一起住 And he gets, well Uncle Dave, you can live with us
就好像他以前去过我的住处 so like, what you see is kind of like...he had been to my house
且我和她也曾经生活在一起过似的 and like I said she and I had lived together
但是他并不能理解我们的生活在一起 and I don't think he thought we lived together
而仅是他们小小的脑袋会认为 but just in a little kid's mind it's about, kind of
要把两个人放在一起 two people should be like, putting them together
这种在一起就是一种具体的物理的方式 in a kind of concrete physical way
他认为叔叔现在需要某个人的陪伴 now Uncle Dave he needs somebody to live with
因为他们自己喜欢被别人陪伴 because they're like kind of together
他们不太能理解运营一段关系 Less understanding of kind of relationships
需要一些内在的情感的东西 and kind of internal stuff going on
所以他们很难真正理解离婚 So it makes it difficult for them to understand divorce
因此会做出强烈的反应 and therefore react strongly
青少年能理解冲突中的性格差异因素 Adolescents who understand the personalities and conflicts
他们通常渴望父母能够重归于好 like I said, often long that mom and dad can get back together
但是他们可能也能理解到这不会奏效 but they might understand that it just isn't going to work
因为他们的认知发展到了 but they also because they have a developing
可以理解自我意识和本体 sense of self and some sort of identity
这时的他们更可能有了较强大的稳定的朋友团 They have a stronger more stable group of friends likely
他们通常更易于逃离父母 They often kind of withdraw from their parents more
可能是父母双方 或者是其中一个 and that might be both parents, or one or the other
一般情况下是男孩逃离妈妈 You typically see often with adolescent boys withdrawal from mom
因为通常妈妈在离婚后会感到更加的脆弱 Often mom after the divorce, feeling more kind of more vulnerable
社会支持减少 has less kind of social support
所以经常会突然把时间转向孩子 often, all of a sudden, is turning to the kids
寻求一点情感支持 a little bit more for emotional support
如果她有烦恼的事 Telling them things, talking to them more about things
就在他们耳边絮絮叨叨 worries she has, things like that
这对于他们的孩子来说就有点难以忍受了 and often that's a little much for boy and for girls
尤其是青春期的男孩子 but particularly adolescent boys
他们会这样想妈妈你必须要自己处理这些事情 who are just like, okay mom, you're going to have to deal with that
因为我有很多事要自己处理...... because I got a lot myself
他可能不一定会这样说 you know he doesn't say this necessarily
因为我有很多我自己的事情 but I have a lot going on myself
举个例子 你们有没有留意 And I think you saw an example of that
视频里那个年纪较大的青少年 where the boys, one of the older boys, adolescent boys in the video
你们还记得他说的话吗？ do you remember what he said?
我也没有听得很清楚 I can't remember exactly what he said in the video
他好像是说那是他们自己的事 but he said something, about like, you know, that's their thing
我只想远离是非 you know, I just gotta kind of stay away from that
对于男孩的影响 这个例子中能够肯定 So, outcomes for boys, I mean there's definitely a strong case
他的爸爸至少有一半的监护权 for dad to be at least have part-time custody
这就是尤其是男孩的一些影响 for the sake of boys in particular
这个孩子可能就受到了这种影响 so that the boys can have that kind of influence
我记得上次给你们也提到过 I think I mentioned this last time too
就是妈妈突然之间成了单亲妈妈 is that with mom being single mom all of a sudden
有些孩子就不再那么服从管教了 sometimes boys don't listen to the rules at home
这可能也是另外一个原因 which is another reason
来解释孩子们为什么最终会有更多的问题行为 why they might end up getting into kind of more problematic behaviors
就是他们不听妈妈的话 They're just not listening to mom
这可能与他们的感知 and that might be related to other feelings
和这种情形的理解有关 the kid has about the situation
就像我之前讲过的外显和内化 Girls show less, kind of, external, like I talked about before
女孩子会较少的展示 externalizing internalizing, girls kind of show less external
一些外在的或者是明显的困扰 or overt kind of forms of distress
但是她们是以更为隐秘的方式展现出来 but you see it in more covert ways
比如焦虑 抑郁 you know , kind of anxiety, possibly depression
单亲家庭的女孩子可能更易于性早熟 maybe precocious sexual activity by girls after a divorce
我忘了她的名字 You saw them, I forget her name
一个社会学家的《好聚好散》 the sociologist had the book The Good Divorce
你们可能听说过这样一句话 you might have heard the phrase
为了孩子离婚 divorce for the sake of the child
为孩子而离婚这样做好吗？ is it good to divorce for the sake of the child?
这本书我也没读过 Well that book or I'm sure...
但是我敢肯定这本书很多内容 I haven't read that book, but I'm sure a large part of that book
是基于弗吉利亚州心理学家的研究工作 is based on work by a psychologist at Virginia
名叫E.Mavis Hetherington called E.Mavis Hetherington
她对一些家庭做了一个纵向的跟踪调查 who did a longitudinal study following families
离婚前 观察孩子的们的发展状况 and before divorce, and seeing how are the kids' outcomes
几年后就这些家庭是否解散等情况 several years later in terms of whether families
观察孩子们的发展状况 divorced or did not divorce
让我们一起看一下她的发现 and let's look at what she found
这里我们看看她的调查结果 So what we have here is she thought
她挑选了一些家庭然后进行跟踪调查 she picked a bunch of families and started and followed then
用了几年的时间 在这个时间段中 in like I said for several years, and then over the course of this time
有些家庭破裂了有的还在维持 families either did or did not divorce
大家看这里 And what you're seeing here
这些柱状图代表的是存在问题行为的男孩 these bars represent boys with behavior problems
这些通常都基于老师们提供的一些问卷调查 what that means is typically teacher-reported questionnaires
比如有没有在学校惹麻烦 on like having trouble in school
是否与人和睦相处 有没有打架 getting along with people or getting into fights
各种捣乱行为 being disruptive in different ways
可能是偷盗 拿别人东西 maybe stealing, taking things
这个就是这些情况下男孩的百分比情况 And so that's a percentage, percentage of boys in these situations
就是所谓的显著的 that are at what's called
行为问题的临床显著性水平 clinically significant level of behavior problems
问题是相当严重的 so these are pretty kind of severe
大约都占了所有孩子的90或第95百分位 and that's usually around the 90th or 95th percentile of all kids
他们是行为问题最严重的5% so that they're kind of in the top 5% of the most behavior problems
这里孩子们归入到这些类别的百分比依据 Well what percentage of kids fall in these categories
是建立在他们的父母是否离异的基础之上 based on whether their parents stay married and divorced
父母的冲突水平很关键 but then critically conflict. What is the level of conflict
看着这些柱状图你们注意到了什么? So what do you notice about these bars here?
谁能帮我解释一下这些数据 Somebody help me interpret the results
这是离婚后头两年的调查结果 So this is within the first two years following the divorce
针对那些离婚后的家庭 for those who divorced
有些家庭没有破裂 You know, some of them didn't divorce
这只是在头一两年 but it's just kind of within the first two years
在调查者说以这个时间为基点 after they said okay this is the time frame
我们开始观察这些家庭的离异情况 we're going to start looking to see if these families divorced or not
以及两年后这些孩子们的表现 and how these kids are doing two years later
我认为这取决于你如何理解这些差异 Well, I guess it depends on how you interpret that difference
很显然那些和睦相处的家庭 Clearly the parents that don't have conflict and stay together
孩子误入歧途的百分比是最低的 have the lowest percentage of kids in that group
而在那些离异且战火不断的家庭里长大的 Clearly the kids whose parents who divorced and have high conflict
男孩子的情况是最为糟糕的 you see the worst outcomes for boys
麻烦也很多 percentage of boys having trouble
然后我想说的是做这项调查的人 And then I would say, and the people who did this study
认为其实离婚并不会造成多大的影响 suggested that there's really not, you know, any kind of difference
对比这两组这种说法是可信的 that you can really, you know, trust, between those two groups
但是如果从长期来看 However, if then you look more long-term
你们发现了什么? now what do you see? Yeah
学生:如果家庭内部存在冲突 Audience: I see that being divorced doesn't make a difference
离婚与否都没什么太大区别 as long as there's conflict in the house
教授:没错 Professor: Right
所以现在离婚的关键一点 So now the point about divorce actually
事实上在冲突 becomes more a point about conflict
是否会造成孩子长期行为问题的关键 and that what seems to matter long-term for boys behavior problems
就是家庭冲突水平是否会降低 is whether conflict goes down
几年后就开始下降 a couple years down the road
无论他们离异与否 whether they're married or divorced
家庭冲突与否才至关重要 and it's the conflict that makes the difference
他们还发现女孩也是同样的结果 And they found the same results with girls
结果很相似 但是要稍微低一点 kind of similar results, but slightly less
你们看看左边的百分比 if you see on the left side, the percentages, the bars
好像和男孩的是一样高 look like they're about the same height
但实际上是要稍微低一点的 but the percentages are actually going down a little bit
相似的情况 就长期而言 but a similar things, where that at longer term
对这些孩子而言 it's conflict, not divorce itself, that's making a bigger difference
就他们的行为问题临床水平而言 for percentage of kids
真正起作用的是冲突而不是离婚本身 at this clinically significant level of behavior problems
这些数据说明了什么? So, what do these results say?
是否说明离婚是正确的? Do they say that it's good to divorce?
我是只指为了孩子的利益而离婚? I mean that it's good to divorce for the sake of the kids
对还是错? yes or no?
学生:如果离婚能结束冲突 Audience: It can be beneficial for the kids
那么离婚有利于孩子 if the conflict ends with the divorce
但是如果离婚不能终止冲突那它真的没有好处 if the conflict doesn't end, then it's really not beneficial
但是如果离婚后冲突就终止 but if the conflict is over once the divorce happens
孩子就会把它抛在脑后 then the kids are putting it in the past
教授:回答得很好 你叫什么名字 Professor: Right, good and your name?
学生:贝丝 Audience: Beth
教授:贝丝 理解得很到位 Professor: Beth, very right, right on Beth
离婚是好是坏我们不得而知 is that it might be good or it might not be good. We don't know
在这项调查里我们找不到答案 It's what we don't know in this study
这个调查里她没有注意到的一点 and what she didn't look at
是我们能否预测哪种家庭的冲突水平会降低 is well can we predict which families are going to go down in conflict
三 四年后 五年后 3, 4 years later, 5 years later
但是就孩子的行为问题而言 But it still remains the case that it might be good for the kids
会降低冲突的离婚仍然是对孩子有利的 in terms of behavior problems if these get the divorce
我们认为有这种合理的可能性 we think there is a reasonable chance
那就是父母之间的冲突会慢慢消散 the conflict is going to go away between the parents
他们能够找到一个离异但是还能合作的办法 That they're going to able to figure out a way to co-parent living apart
可能不是在离婚后的头一年 you know, maybe not in the first year
但是可能几年后可以冰释前嫌 but maybe a couple years down the road
这时他们就能懂得更好的去做好父母的角色 where they can kind of be parents
而不再是战火硝烟 and not have to fight about that