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今天很高兴有机会 I am very delighted to have this opportunity
来给大家谈谈我的研究 to talk to you today about my work
还有与 心灵生活 这一主题相关的 and consistent with the idea of life of the mind
与时俱进的一些生命的发展和变化 life and development change and hopefully improvement over time
之前我对于 平等 的想法 I am going to reflect on
是以家庭法律背景下的性别平等为主 how my ideas about claims for equality have progressed
后来我又往更大胆的方向去研究 from a focus on gender equality within family law
我会谈一下这个过程是如何实现的 to the much more ambitious project
现在我主张的是 国家应当具有更好的相应性 I am now advancing for a more responsive state
我的论点的中心组织理念就是人的脆弱性 The organizing concept for my argument is that of vulnerability
脆弱是一种人的处境 Vulnerability is a universal
它具有普遍性 无时无处不在 and ever present aspect of the human condition
人类作为一种具有实体的生物 Human beings as embodied creatures
一直以来都是脆弱的 are all always vulnerable
这是因为疾病 灾害和其他浩劫 This is due to the ever constant possibility of dependency
超出了人类的控制范围 presented by disease disaster
所以就产生了这种可能 or other catastrophes
那就是人们总是有依赖性 free beyond our individual control
我们可能在身体方面或者其他方面 We might become physically or otherwise
需要依赖于他人的照顾 dependent for care on others
包括社会及其制度 including society
更多的是国家和家庭 and its institutions most likely the state or family
眼下的这种依赖性 We experience this specter
就像幽灵一样让我们感到恐惧 of imminent reliance as frightening
因为我们知道 Not the least because we know
这些社会制度本身也是很脆弱的 that societal institutions themselves are vulnerable
潜在地 它们很不稳定 易受到 potentially unstable and susceptible to challenges
内外部力量的动摇 from both internal and external forces
我认为 特别是对美国人来说 For many Americans I think in particular
国家似乎是一种不稳定的实体 this state seems a particularly precarious entity
我们无法信任 依靠 with which to trust our dependency
这里我把国家视为 And I view the state here
一系列行使公共权力的复杂机构 as a complex set of institutions exercising public authority
这一点有必要先交代清楚 I just make that clear
首先来谈谈平等 But let me start with the idea of equality
平等的观念 或者说平等这个概念 The idea of equality or the concept of equality
长久以来都是与个人自由主义 is traditionally associated
哲学思想的兴起联系在一起的 with the rise of philosophy of individual liberalism
这个想法主张 And the advocacy of the idea
每个人生来平等 that all human beings are by nature free
而且都被赋予了同等的 不可剥夺的权力 and endowed with the same inalienable rights
但是 至少美国的法理学认为平等 Yet equality at least as understood in American jurisprudence
就是要求要有同样的待遇 as the requirement of sameness of treatment
在很多情况下 It is an adequate tool
它是反对隶属关系的有力武器 to resist subordination in many circumstances
在二十世纪八十年代 And in the 1980s
我写了一系列文章 I wrote a series of articles
这些文章最后汇成了《平等的幻觉》一书 that were eventually comminuted in the book the Illusion of Equality
在这些文章和这本书中 And in those articles and in that book
我说到 I argued that
平等和性别中立这样的概念 equality and gender neutrality were not appropriate concepts
用在家庭法的改革中并不合适 to employ in reforming family law
我的论点主旨就是 The gist of my argument was
家庭作为性别分歧最明显的机构 that the family as our most gendered institution was not susceptible
并不适用于之前美国法律中所形成的 to the imposition of a formal equality model
平等模式的约束 as was developed in American law
不好意思 Excuse me
之前的法律文化所产生和执行的 In norm gender difference previously
规范性别差异 produced and reinforced in culture in law
比如说 换偶是罪行这样的法律 as trading spouses is a sin
只能加剧和加深现有的不平等 could only further and deepen existing inequalities
我发现了三点性别的不平等 I identified three entrenched gender inequalities
它们根深蒂固地存在并影响着大部分婚姻 affecting most marriages
第一点是就工资和就业不平等 First was wage and employment inequality
这个问题存在于就业市场中 which exist in the market
从薪资和雇佣条件来看 and disadvantage women
女性属于弱势群体 in terms of compensation and conditions of employment
第二点是家庭谈判中经常存在的不平等 Second was the inequality that persisted in family negotiations
那就是要牺牲谁的个人利益 over whose individual interests should be sacrificed
来成全整个家庭的利益 for the larger family good
这对于女性非常不利 a process that disadvantaged women
因为她们赚得不多 due to their lower earning
而且总被社会贴上 利他主义的标签 and culturally imposed altruism
不管怎么说 人们总是认为 After all we are the ones
女人应该为了他人做牺牲 who are supposed to making sacrifices for others
第三点 这种不平等 Finally there were the inequalities
将来还会继续存在 that will be carried on into the future
那就是在离婚后 The inequality that arose post divorce
孩子的监护权 with the responsibilities of child custody
大多数都是被判给母亲 overwhelmingly assigned to women
赡养费本就不多 要拿到这笔钱也不容易 Maternal custody was further disadvantage
这对于独自抚养小孩的母亲来说 due to the difficulty
无疑是雪上加霜 of collecting the inadequate child supports that were given
在早期的研究中我不断探索 In that early work I explored
并加深我对于平等的理解 and expanded understanding of equality
我认为我们在家庭中需要的 I suggested that what we need to do in the family
并不是形式上或(听不清)平等 was not formal or (INAUDIBLE) equality
而是实质平等 或称成效平等 but some notion of substantive or result equality
这种平等要求 that took into account
考虑到过去的情况和将来的责任 both past circumstances and future obligations
要考虑家庭的需要和公正 Consider need and equity
而不是形式上的平等 instead of formal equality
我希望 My hope was that
我们能在家庭中推崇一种 we might fashion a result sensitive version of equality
随机应变的的实质平等 for the family context
允许不平等对待或区别对待离婚的夫妻 allow unequal or different treatment of divorcing spouses
目的在于解决婚后这种不平等需求问题 in order to address the inequalities of need post divorce
这是我希望实现的 that was what I wanted to do
至少对于我个人而言 这是很不公平的 This seemed fairly inequitable at least to me
设想夫妻中的一方在婚前和婚后都要 Considering one spouse typically assumed
承担抚养孩子的责任 primary responsibility for children are both within and after marriage
那么离婚后 她在就业市场中 And as a result was not in an equal position post divorce
和别人就不是平等的 to deal with market
我建议在家庭中抛开 The suggestion that we move away from
那些形式上的平等 formal equality in the family context
这条建议被狠狠抨击了 was viciously attacked
以前他们管我叫的那些名字可不好听 I had truth words that used to followe me around
很讽刺地是 抨击我的不仅有女权法律学者 Ironically I was attacked both by feminist legal scholars
还有男权组织 and man's groups
在家庭法律问题上 Two groups that are normally on very different sides
这两个团体向来是水火不容 when they came to family law issues
但是对于我 他们却站在一条战线上 But in my case they were united
这些抨击的说辞 These attacks were coached
主要是围绕现行法律解释 修辞上的平等 in the rhetoric of the prevalent legal understanding of equality
及其要求每个人都要享有相同的待遇 as formally nature requiring the sameness of treatment
平等就是一种反对任何歧视的模式 Equality was about an anti-discrimination model
并且质疑任何区别对待 and suspicious of any difference in treatment
正如我建议的那样区别对待 Such as I was suggesting
女权主义者的抨击 The feminist attacks reflected
是从历史的角度回顾女性 the history of exclusion that women had experienced
女性过去被禁止参加公共生活 exclusion from public life
因此女权主义者相信 And they believe that
一旦承认了性别差异的存在 any recognition of gender difference
它不可避免地会导致区别对待 inevitably led to inferior treatment
正因如此法律中不允许 For that reason special or different treatment
有任何特别或区别对待 under law had to be rejected
于是最后得出了这样的结论 The ultimate point is or should be
我们现有的宪法或法令中的平等制度 our current constitutional and statutory equality regimes
是从歧视的角度出发去解释平等的 analyze this equality through the lens of discrimination
没有考虑或者说忽略了 independent of and seemingly oblivious
现行分配制度中存在的不平等 to the existing inequalities of distribution
平等制度假定 各个体系中现行的 Our equality regime assumes the existing allocation
资源和权力分配制度 of resources and power in various systems
比如政府体系 经济体系 such as those governing, economic
就业体系中存在的分配制度 and employment relationships
国家是不应干预的 Unless there is some distortion
除非说 因无法容忍的偏见 introduced by impermissible bias
而导致体制产生了扭曲 the State should not intervene
一些形式的偏见现在也被大家熟知 Some forms of bias are in fact recognized
我们知道存在很多类别的歧视 We all know the lightening of categories
包括宗教性别阶级和国籍等等 found equal protection doctorine
也分别存在相关的保护法则 race gender class religion, national origin and so on
上述因素决定了一个人的法律身份 These characteristics define the individual legal identities
它们是利益团体的工作重心 They organize interest group focus
最终也为立法的着眼点限定了范围 and ultimately they confine the concern of the law itself
以这些身份类别为主线 These identity categories are the axis
平等保护的主张得以组织 around which equal protection claims are organized
反对法律歧视现象的呼声此起彼伏 objections to law and practices are framed in terms of discrimination
这些歧视是由本不应存在的分类差异产生的 that is based on impermissible categories
这些分类代表物质社会 These categories are proxies for material social
和政治方面存在的不平等 and political inequalities
但这么一来 我们所追求的就变成了 But so elimination of discrimination
消除对于特定身份的歧视 against certain identities becomes the quest
而不是消除 not the elimination of the inequalities
这些歧视所代表的不平等 for which they are often standing
例如贫穷 尊严被剥夺 没有基本的社会财富 Poverty, denial with dignity, and absence of basic social goods
这些分类的问题就在于 The problems with these categories is
它们的包容性既过强 又过弱了 that they are both over and under inclusive
它们没有 也无法反映 They do not or can not capture
我们社会中存在的不平等的全部具体情况 the full circumstances of inequalities in our society
这里我想提个警告 Now there's a caveat here
我承认这方面的歧视确实存在 I acknowledge the discrimination along this lines does exist
我也承认 每个人的特殊情况 And I recognize the personal characteristics might work
都会使得他的脆弱性变得更为复杂 to complicate the experiences of vulnerability for any individual
对此我的观点是 My claim here is nearly
仅仅基于身份因素而产生的歧视 that the discrimination model
这种歧视模型 based on identity characteristics alone
不会产生更好的平等条件 will not produce circumstances of greater equality
而且可能会造成相反的结果 and may in fact lead to less
此外 在家庭内外 Further the point is that in and outside of the family
我们的平等观念非常弱 our sense of equality is weak
大多数的承诺都是都成了空头支票 Its promises largely are illusory
因为它没有 because it fails to take into account
把现有情况的不平等考虑在内 the existing inequality of circumstances
就好像 我们的物质文化 社会不平等 It is as though this material culture and social inequalities
是自然力量的产物 were a product of natural forces
国家和法律是无力解决问题的 and beyond the ability of the state or law to rectify
在现有的意识形态下 现存的不平等或许真的 Existing inequalities may in fact be beyond the will of the state
不是国家的意志可以解决的问题了 under our current ideology
但是它们肯定不是自然产生的 But they are certainly not natural
它们是由社会及其制度产生并繁殖的 They are produced and reproduced in society and its institutions
沿着这个论断往前 This assertion leads to the next step
就到了我的观点的第二阶段 in the evolution of my thought kind of phase two
可以说是青春期阶段吧 Adolescent phase maybe
我认识到这个国家和法律如何建立机构 An appreciation of how this state and law structured institutions
赋予其利益和责任 in ways that confer benefits and burdens
及其分配过程是如何加剧不平等的 and how that allocation process can further inequality
以上这些就是我下一步的研究 so this is the next step I took
在这一阶段 In this stage
我把家庭看作是社会中的一个个体 I looked at family as entity within society
考虑到家庭在社会大环境中的地位 considering the place of the family within the larger society
家庭作为社会结构的一部分扮演的角色 The role that the family played as a construct
它与其他结构的社会机构又有怎样的关系 and its relationship to other constructive societal institutions
特别是市场和国家 particularly the market and the state
在这个问题上我对比了公共和私人两种方法 And in this I confronted the public and private device
所以我们就有了一个公共和一个私人的世界 so this is divisional world in public and private
家庭并不构成一个独立的领域 Far from constituting a separate sphere
而是稳固地存在于社会之中 the family is firmly located within
而且被其所处的社会所定义 and thus defined by the society that surrounds it
如此 在定义家庭方面 In this regard
法律起到了很重要的作用 law has a large role to play in defining the family
家庭也相应地对社会起到了巨大的影响 Correspondingly the family has also a large impact on society
即 社会如何组织 又是如何运行 and how society is organized and how it operates
因此家庭和社会的关系 Therefore the relationship between the family and society
并不像人们用法律术语所规范的那样 is not as often conceived in legal rhetoric
是一个补充的领域 One of complementary spheres
也就是私人和公共领域 仅仅有部分交集 public and private spheres that intersect only in some areas
相反的 二者是相互依存的关系 Rather their relationship is symbiotic
要让其中一个领域改变 And to affect change in one area
就必须在其他的领域也做出相应的改变 it is necessary to have a corresponding change
和相应的调节 corresponding accommodations in the other areas
二者是相互包含的 They are contained within each other
这就能解释为什么性别平等改革要想取得成功 This helps to explain why gender equality reforms to be successful
就要跳出家庭的框框 进入社会这个大环境 have to move beyond the family and into the larger society
所以我是本着这样的想法 So the second phase of my work
开始第二阶段的研究 starts with that understanding
但是我还是想 But also let me to begin work
从依赖理论着手来研究这个问题 on a theory of dependency
这也是社会结构重大改革中的 which was also an argument
一个议题 for a larger reform of this organization of society
在现代人的意识中 In contemporary understanding
依赖性被视为是消极被动的条件和地位 dependency is viewed as a very negative condition or status
还有一些人想要通过废除所谓的激励措施 There are attempts to eradicate dependency
来消除这种依赖性 by removing so called incentives
比如对贫穷单亲妈妈的生活补助 such as welfare payments for poor single mothers
政治话语则把依赖性看作某种 Political rhetoric treats dependency of something
可以被根除 而且在人为控制范围内的东西 that can be eliminated and is within individual control
因此被视为有依赖性的人 Therefore those who have been deemed dependent
理应受到惩罚并受到贬低 are deservingly punished and stigmatized for that dependency
因为这在他们的控制范围内 because it is within their control
如果他们足够优秀的话 就可以消除依赖性 It could be eliminated if only they were good enough
有意思的是依赖性 作为概念 Interestingly dependency is a concept
它有着一段有趣的历史 has an interesting history
长久以来 这个概念并没有固定下来 And its meaning has not remained fixed over time
接下来我会详细讲一讲 And I'll go into this a little bit
例如在早期的美国政治中 For example early in American political history
依赖性的标签得到了广泛的应用 the label of dependent was much more broadly applied
依赖性作为依据 有些人因此 and dependency was used as the basis
被剥夺了一些政治权利比如投票权 for exclusion of some from political rights such as voting
这也是部分人成为二等公民 as well as providing justification for second-class citizenship
或是社会特殊公民的原因 or for some members of society
依赖性也被用来 Dependency was used to
形容女性和儿童的地位 describe the position of women and children certainly
当然我并不是歧视 只是说历史确实如此 I mean not... it's just historically been true
但是这个概念也被用来形容男人 But it was a term also applied to men
那些工薪族 who were merely wage earners
他们没有房产也没有存款 and had no property or capital accumulations to support them
依赖性是指 Dependency was the status
必须依赖他人生存的状态 of having to rely on others for your livelihood
打工赚钱也算是依赖性 Working for wages constituted dependency
当然如今有趣的是 我们眼中的工薪族 Of course today we consider the wage earner
已经变身成为 who interestingly has kind of morphed into
传说中的纳税人 this mythic figure of the taxpayer
他们就是独立公民的模范 to be the exemplar of the independent citizen
他们不再是依赖别人 而是独立自主的 No long dependent but independent
借此我想指出的是 But the point is
现行政治术语所隐含的意思 是会发生变动的 that meanings behind our potent political terms can change
这些术语需要得到定期的解构 and such terms periodically need to be deconstructed
背后的假设也需要得到检查和审视 and assumptions behind them examined and challenged
我是从依赖性的普遍性着手 My deconstruction of dependency began with
进行它的解构 an argument about its universality
依赖性是不可避免的 并普遍存在 Dependency is inevitable, it's universal
在这个背景中 Dependency in this context
依赖性属于生物学和成长的范畴 is a biological and developmental category
人类与生俱来带有依赖性 It's inherent in the human condition
这间屋子里的所有人 还是婴儿和儿童时 All of us everyone in this room is dependent
都要依赖别人 as an infant or as a child
可能当我们年老的时候 生病了或者是残疾了 Perhaps most of us will also be dependent
也需要依赖别人 as we age, become ill, or disabled
别的依赖性 Other types of dependency
可能是伴随着这种生物学 may accompany this biological
和成长范畴的依赖性而产生 or developmental form of dependency
例如 可能会伴随产生 Economic, psychological or emotional dependencies
经济 心理和情感上的依赖性 for example may come along with this
但是 这些不是我研究的重点 They have not been the focus of my intellectual concern however
除了一点 那就是它们体现了 Except demonstrate how varied the relationships
在依赖性的领域中 各种关系是多么复杂 that may be crammed into the world of dependency really are
这个简单的词并不能反映我们所利用 This simple word does not capture the range of complex relationships
或遵循的各种关系 that we use it or apply to it
但是有一种依赖性 But there is one form of dependency
在我的研究中占有重要地位 that has been central to my work
我称之为衍生依赖性 what I call derivative dependency
我们知道必然依赖性是属于生物学的范畴 so we have inevitable dependency biological category here
而衍生依赖性 Derivative dependency
是社会的或机构的依赖性 and this is the social or institutional component of dependency
这是一个简单的概念 A simple concept
我刚刚提到有些人不可避免需要依赖别人 Those who care for others for the children the elderly the ill
例如儿童老人和病人 而照顾他们的人 The inevitable dependents as I referred to
本身也需要资源和社会支援 are themselves in need of resources and social support
这样才能完成照顾他人的工作 in order to undertake that care and succeed
依赖性源自这些人肩负的任务 Dependency derives from the tasks that these people assume
他们之所以会产生衍生依赖性 They are derivatively dependent
是因为他们从事的是社会公益工作 because of social work they are doing
关于衍生依赖性有一点很重要 Important in regard to derivative dependency
那就是和必然依赖性不同的 is the fact that unlike inevitable dependency
衍生依赖性并不是普遍存在的 Derivative dependency is not a universal experience
相反 这种照顾的工作 Quite the contrary, care work instruction
通过法律和社会机构的分流 through law and societal institutions
变成了只需社会部分成员承担的 channeled so is to be the responsibility
责任或义务 or obligation of only some members of society
在美国 In the United States
家庭责任的意识形态 the ideology of family responsibility
就是一个很好的分流案例 does this kind of channeling work
通过家庭 我们把依赖性变得 The family is the way that we institutionalize
制度化和私有化 and privatize dependency
家庭就像个人一样 And the family is like the individual
有义务独立 有义务自给自足 is supposed to be independent and self-sufficient in its operation
我们从社会接过依赖性 So we take dependency in society
将其分流到每个家庭中 channeled into family
让每个家庭自己去处理 and tell the family, you take care of it
那些依靠国家生存的家庭 Families that had to resort to the state for support
被认为很失败 are deemed failures
把家庭视为 Note they are casting this family
一个私人的个体这种做法 a separate private in this way, a private family
让政治家 哲学家和政策分析师 justifies the politicians and philosophers and policy analysts
无视依赖性 甚至无视家庭就变得情有可原 in ignoring dependency even in ignoring the family
因为我们已经把依赖性私人化了 so that we privatize it
就可以把它放到一边去了 set it aside
接着我们就可以进一步拓展这个理论 And then we allow our theories to then spin out
进一步假定每个家庭都具有功能 feel competent to assume a function in family is
能够落实 that they spin out their theories
公平 平等 效率和独立的理论 of justice equality efficiency and autonomy
每个家庭都应该做到这些 All of that assumes this family
我对此持批判的观点 I am critical of this
我认为这种私有化 and argue that this privatization operates
非常不公平 in a manner that's highly unjust
而且这种现象不能被忽视 and can not be ignored
这种不公平的现象 That injustice resonates
在所有的社会机构中都存在 across all of social organization
首先我们这样将依赖性私有化 First privatizing dependency in the way we do
就加剧了家庭内部的不平等 furthers inequality within the family
在家庭中 依赖性的工作 Within family dependency work
不是被平均分配给所有成员的 is not universally shared
而是落到某些家庭成员的头上 but delegated to some family members
多数情况下 家庭中 And it is still the case in most instances within the family
任何照顾人的工作 that the course that is associated with care taking
都是由女性完成 are born more by women
社会赋予女性的角色就是 who are socialized in the roles
母亲 妻子 女儿等等 as mother, wife, daughter and so on
我意识到 在这种社会安排中 I came to the realization that within this set of social arrangements
女性是几乎不可能获得性别平等的 Gender equality would be next to impossible for women to achieve
至少她们是母亲的话 那就不可能 at least if they were mothers
她们要照顾别人 肩负重任 As care takers they were uniquely burdened
照顾别人意味着要把时间和精力 Undertaking care labor means that diverting time and energy
从别的活动中转移过来 from investment in activity
从而放弃这些活动的经济回报 that is economically rewarded
和社会赏识 and recognized in society
以权力和名声的形式呈现 by the conferral of power and prestige
所以在这个私有化的家庭中 So care takers within this private family
照顾人的那一方其实是受到了惩罚 are actually punished
所谓的自由市场 自由市场构建的方式 disadvantaged by the so called free market
以及国家缺乏管理监督 the way the free market is constructed
对她们都是非常不利的 and by the lack of regulatory supervision by the state
第二点 第二个不公平 Second point second injustice
将目光投向社会 Further turning my gaze to society
我认为将依赖性私有化会促生无息贷款 I assert privatizing dependency in fact fosters free loan
我真喜欢这个部分的内容 This part of announce of what I really liked
照顾他人的人其实是对整个社会的补贴 Care work is an unrecognized subsidy
却鲜有人发现这一点 to the entire society to the rest of society
这部分费用是由家庭来承担的 That is built on the back of the family
而在家庭之中又是由照顾人的一方来承担的 And within the family on the back of care takers
我们来看看家庭中的劳动带来的利益 Let's look at the benefits that are conferred by the family labor
照顾他人的工作 Care labor produces value
为整个社会及其机构带来利益 for the whole society and its institutions
正是这项工作 It is that work
产生了工人 纳税人 士兵 that produces the worker the taxpayer the solder
消费者 老师 学生等等 the consumer the teacher the student and so forth
我们还可以列出很多 We can go through a whole list of things
这项工作是重要的 不可或缺的 Surely society should share the burdens
社会理应担负起这项工作所带来的重任 that are associated with this vital indispensable labor
但是社会并没有承担起责任 But far from the sharing the burden
照顾家庭产出的利益本应归于家庭 states and markets appropriate the benefits of care work
但是却被国家和市场中饱私囊 that goes on in families
明显 这就是一种不公平 and there in lies the injustice
人们有必要认识到照顾工作产生了补贴 There is a need of recognition for this subsidy of care
以及国家和机构将其中饱私囊的行为 and the accommodation by the state and its institutions
这样这个群体才能获得利益 so that this group can go forward
他们不用再承担本不属于他们的重任 without unduely burdening those undertake it
我们需要的是在社会机构中 What we need is more just allocation
更公平地分配依赖性所对应的责任 of responsibility for dependency across societal institutions
这意味着工作场所需要进行改革 It means reforming the work place
这意味着在把责任推给家庭的同时 it means rethinking the responsibility of this state
也要重新考虑国家的责任 in addition to placing responsibility on the family
以上是第二阶段 So that was stage two
接下来是第三阶段 Now stage three
在之前关于依赖性的论点中 I noted in the earlier argument on dependency
我关注于照顾别人的那一方的博弈 I was focusing on the play of the care taker
她的工作成果被利用 得到的利益被挪用 the exploitation and appropriation of her
在这里要说 他 的工作成果和权益 and here I have all his
因为这里 不是照顾人的那一方的性别 because it's the activity
而是照顾行为本身更为重要 not the gender of the person doing the care work
也就是照顾人的这项行为 but the care work itself
对人是非常不利的 that is disadvantaging
所以她或者他的劳动成果 So her or his labor is exploited
被社会占用 and appropriated by the larger society
这种劳动是必要的 也具有社会生产力 It's a socially productive and necessary labor
但是社会并没有为这些劳动 But there is no corresponding adjustment
提供相应的调整 作为支持 by the rest of the society to support that labor
第三点是基于以上的认识 So the next piece third piece is built on this realization
并引入了脆弱性的概念 and introduces the concept of vulnerability
这也是我最近在研究的内容 which is I am working on currently
这引我们转而考虑 And this moves us to consider
那些需要被照顾的人 the position of those needing to be cared for
换句话说也就是我们所有人 And that would of course be all of us in other words
我们先把照顾人的那一方放一边 and with the care taker behind
注意力转移到自己身上 and moved on to us
脆弱性就像依赖性一样 Vulnerability like dependency
要求我们对定义做出详细的解释 requires some definitional elaboration
首先脆弱性也是普遍存在的 First vulnerability is also universal
所有的人类都很脆弱 All human beings are vulnerable
它是普遍存在的 It is an universal aspect
因此脆弱性就如必然的依赖性一样 therefore vulnerability is like inevitable dependency
事实上二者经常被混淆 In fact they two might be confused
但是我想要从理论的角度强调一下 But there are differences in important aspects
二者各自重要方面的一些区别 that I want to emphasize from a theoretical perspective
必然依赖性是周期性的 阵发性的 Inevitable dependency is episodic sporadic
它的本质是成长性的 and largely developmental in nature
于是 人类在生命的某些阶段中才存在依赖性 So that we are dependent in stages perhaps of our lives
于是这种普遍性并不是持续的 So well its universal is not constant
而脆弱性则贯穿了我们的生命 Vulnerability is constant throughout our lives
不仅包括在过去对我们造成的伤害 Representing not only damage that has been done within the past
还有现在的威胁 But also the present threat
以及将来我们可能会受到的伤害 the damage might be done to us in the future
而正是我们存在依赖性的这种现存的可能性 It is the present potential for all of us to become dependent
构成了我们的脆弱性 that constitutes vulnerability
这是由于我们随时可能受到 It comes in the wake of our susceptibility
灾难的影响 our constant susceptibility to catastrophe
有一种可能性长期存在 the constant possibility
那就是我们会因为疾病 恶劣气候 that we can be undone disease, arrant weathers
水灾 干旱 饥荒和火灾而死亡 systems that produce flood, draught, famine and fire
人类可以利用他们拥有的资源 events that human resources
来减轻这些灾害带来的影响 can attempt to mitigate
但是这些灾害并不在我们控制范围之内 but which are ultimately beyond our control
此外 某些机构也可能失灵 And then of course there are the institutions
从而暴露我们的脆弱性 that may fail us exposing our vulnerability
例如银行体系 经济体制 such as banking systems, economic institutions
房地产市场 housing markets for example
正如依赖性 Like dependency
脆弱性也包含个人和机构两种成分 Vulnerability has both an individual and an institutional component
我们的个人生活和社会生活都具有脆弱性 Both our personal and our social lives are marked by vulnerability
个人的和社会的 Personal, social
在个人方面 脆弱性指的是人类境遇中 On a individual level vulnerability encapsulates the universal
普遍并持久存在的脆弱 and constant fragility of the human condition
根据个人所拥有的资源数量 质量不同 Vulnerability may be experienced differently in particularized ways
会对脆弱性造成影响 导致各种脆弱性的经历 influenced by the quality and quantity of resources
会有所不同 that we as individuals possess
但是脆弱性是不可避免的 but it can't be avoided
在机构方面 On an institutional level
我认为脆弱性分析的有力之处就在于 I think the strength of vulnerability analysis is
它关注的是社会组织 it's focus on societal groupings
这些组织被认为是脆弱性的产物 They are understood as the products of vulnerability
建立的目的在于作为应对机制行事 established for the role they serve and provide in coping mechanisms
于是我们人类集合起来 So we come together in institutions
作为机构来应对这种脆弱性 to deal with our vulnerability
机构可以缓冲脆弱性 Institutions are cushions against vulnerability
它们可以提供资源用于应对灾难和暴力 They provide resources with which to withstand disaster and violence
事实上我认为大部分的社会及其机构 In fact I would argue that society and its institutions are structured
其建立的目的 正是应对人类的脆弱性 to a great extent in response to human vulnerability
既然社会不能消除其脆弱性 while society can not eradicate vulnerability
那它只能通过这些机构减缓或补偿脆弱性 it may mediate or compensate for it through these institutions
脆弱性具有其社会一面 它让我们关注 The social aspect of vulnerability focuses us on the systems
那些负责为个人提供财产的体系 that provide assets to individuals
这些财产让人们能够坚强地 that together give these individuals resilience
面对其脆弱性 in the face of vulnerability
这些财产可能是有形的 物质的 These assets may be physical or material
提供财产的系统 And these need be provided by systems
有能力汇集收入 财富或房产 that garner income wealth or property
或法律 including incidentally law
这些财产也可能以人力资源的形式存在 The assets may be in the form of human capital
人力资源由教育和就业体系产生 generated by systems of education and employment
于是一边是资源 一边是机构 So we have assets on one hand institutions on the other
这些财产也具有社会性 The assets are also social
它们都是由家庭 created through family
和其他文化团体或组织创造的 and other cultural groups or associations
于是我们就有了各种财产 So we have variety of assets
以及生产财产的各种体系和机构 and variety of systems and institutions producing them
在脆弱性分析中 In vulnerability analysis
我们关注的是 we are looking at the relationship
社会及其机构体系 between the society and those institutions as/or systems
还有社会的义务之间的关系 the obligation of the society
即通过支持平等体制的实施和维持 to support the implementation and maintenance
来实现这个重要的体制 of the vital equality regime
这意味着我们要着眼于法律 国家和平等 This means looking at law looking at state and looking at equality
在这项任务中 And in this task
脆弱性的角度着眼于这个体系中的既得利益者 a vulnerability approach looks at privileged
还有那些 and disadvantaged within the systems
为人们创造财产的弱势群体 that generate these assets for individuals
我们还是要考虑之前说到的身份类别 The old identity categories are not totally removed from consideration
这也许会使得当下的情况变得更复杂 They may complicate what happens in the systems
但是当我们跳出宗教和社会阶级等的类别局限 But the concerns are reframed when we move
我们又有了新的考虑和关注点 beyond the inherent categories of race and class so forth
这些新产生的问题 And our concerns are reframed
反映了常被我们忽视的一些事情 and the frameworks reveal things
也就是我们只关注身份类别时常忽视的事情 that are often missed when we just focus on identity categories
脆弱性分析意味着 Vulnerability analysis means
我们有必要将整个社会作为一个整体来审视 the whole of society is under scrutiny
而不是某一小部分人 not just a defined minority
同时也意味着其重点不在于个人 It means the focus is not on the individual
而在于机构 but is institutional
我们要关注的是 贯穿各个身份类别的 on the structures of privileged and disadvantaged
特权阶级和弱势群体的结构 that migrate across identity categories
我们来看一看这些机构 So let's look at these systems
我认为 一种互动的机构 I argue that an interacting system
可以更好地对脆弱性免疫 developed to less immune
或补偿这种脆弱性 or compensate for vulnerability
我们认为社会可以往这个方向努力 So this is how we can think about society
一些机构受到国家有意的 明显的控制 Some systems are conscientiously explicitly controlled by the state
比如那些调控家庭结合 解散的机构 Such as those that regulate the formation of the family
和结婚离婚相关的机构 dissolution of the family
国家明显地控制了这些机构 And they are done explicitly
还有对于年轻人的保护 Also the protection of the young
对于水资源和安全等等 the establishment of standards for things
标准的保护 like water and safety and so forth
这些明显是受到国家调控的 are all explicitly regulated
其他一些组织 则被错误地认为 Others are perceived incorrectly
其运作不受国家的影响和调控 as operating outside state influence and control
这些机构多数是私营的 Usually in the private sector
包括宗教组织 and include things like religious organizations
和民间团体 and some aspects of civil society
但是在这么多的机构当中 But within the systems multiple systems
有些人得到了利益 而其他人却没有 some are advantaged or privileged while others are not
其实现的方式是我们看不到的 And this is done in ways that are invisible
至少是毋庸置疑的 or at least beyond question
人们理所当然地认为这些机构都是合理的 They are viewed as intuitively appropriate
所以这些社会组织 so that we have social organizations as always
以自然的形式得以存在 in existence and natural in form
但是这些体系中充斥着特权和弱势 But privilege and disadvantage are matted out though these systems
二者不断积累 互相互动 And these are cumulative and interactive
有时一个体系中的特权可以减缓 Sometimes privileged within one system can mediate
甚至是抵消另一个体系中的弱势 or even cancel out disadvantage in another
这就是为什么有些人能够 And this can explain why some people
克服其本身社会阶级和种族的弱势 can transcend the supposed disadvantages of class or race
比如巴拉克·奥巴马 and be Barrack Obama for example
但是另一方面 这些体系中的弱势和特权 But it is also true that disadvantages and privileges
也会不断累积 accumulate across systems
二者结合造成的结果 and can combine to bring us effects
会比其中任何一方单独产生的后果 more devastating or more beneficial
更具毁灭性 抑或者更有利 than each the way you have separated apart
所以你会看到这个积累的过程 So you have this kind of accumulative process
因此我会认为 脆弱性分析认为 Therefore I would argue vulnerability analysis would argue
并不是像很多分析中所说那样 it's not that identities intersect as it
身份本身的交错产生了特权和劣势 has been poised in some analysis
事实上 是权力与特权的交错和互动 but the systems of power and privilege intersect or interact together
产生了特权和劣势人群 to produce advantages and disadvantages
我们有必要理解这个过程 And this is the process that we have to understand
请注意 社会中的这些体系 Note the systems that are in place within society
有政治和法律权威撑腰 are reinforced by politics and legal authority
这让我回到了法律理论家的身份中来看问题 and this brings me back to my roles as a legal theorist
法律和政策要质疑的 So the questions that law and policy should ask
不应该是区别对待 are not about discrimination
而是应该分辨清楚 but rather should be directed towards understanding
社会体系中哪些人是特权阶级 who is privileged
哪些人是弱势群体 and who is disadvantaged within societal systems
弱势群体如何产生 为什么会存在 how and why does this disadvantage exist
社会还是要建立一个平等的体制 The mandates till for societies to establish a regime of equality
但是重点有些许不同 but the focus is different
脆弱性分析之中国家的责任 Further the state responsibility
通常会被放大 is usually magnified in vulnerability analysis
国家必须保证它的政治体系 The state must ensure that its societal systems
针对公民所享有的脆弱性 give equal regard equal protection
将平等的待遇和保护给予每位公民 for the shared vulnerability of its citizens
如果不能 就要解释为什么 or explain why not
这个方法已经超越了过去的区别对待模式 This approach transcends the old discrimination model
过去用区别对待模式来监测平等体制是否相同 used to monitor sameness
或者存在差异 or difference of equality regime
于是国家这个概念的意义就变得更加丰富了 so I may measure an expanded notion for the state
脆弱性分析认为 Vulnerability analysis suggest
我们需要一个更警惕 响应更好的国家 we need a more vigilant and a more responsive state
我们也需要更实际意义上的平等 We also need a more robust concept of equality
对于特权阶级的关注 A focus on privileged
使得立法研究的本质发生了改变 changes the nature of the legal inquiry
我们不再关注社会中 It moves away from assessing
某些团体的待遇 the treatment of designated groups within society
计较他们是否是受到恶意的攻击 to see if they are the subjects of animus
弱势群体的身份已经不是重点 The focus will not be on the identity of the disadvantaged
于是我们不再关注那些 So we are not focusing on those
受压迫的人或者弱势群体 who are oppressed or disadvantaged and in the sense
好像他们就是某种区别对待模式的产物 it has been developed under a discrimination paradigm
我们也不会再去探究个人行动的意义 Nor would the test be to explore the purpose of individual actors
无论他们是官员 雇主 教育家还是业主 while they'd be state actors or employers or educators or landlords
我们所关注的不再是个人的行动 So we are not looking at their behavior
个人的意图并不是真正的问题 Individual intention is not the issue
同样地 区别对待也不是症结所在 nor is the discrimination
我们所需要关注的重点是社会结构 Rather the societal structures would be the focus
我们要探寻 and the inquiry will be into the ways
资源分配的方式 in which resources are channeled in ways
保证特权阶级会保护并容忍 that privilege will protect while tolerating
弱势群体和其他人群的脆弱性 the disadvantaged and vulnerability of others
我把脆弱性分析称为后身份分析 Thus the vulnerability approach I call a post-identity analysis
也就是分析社会将为其成员的贫瘠和需求 of what sort of protection from deprivation and need
提供怎样的保护 society owes its members
还有社会机构要如何满足人们的需求 and how such needs can be addressed through societal institutions
特别是法律机制 particularly legal institutions
包括法律 立法机关 法庭和政治 including law, legislatures, courts, and politics
在脆弱性是否具有个人性这个问题上 Whether relevant or not the individual aspect of vulnerability
我认为有必要重新就体制安排的问题 I do think we have to rethink the liberal subject
重新对自由主体作出思考 about the institutional arrangements
这里我们主要谈的是自由主义的抽象问题 Now with all that liberal abstraction
你可能会问 you might be asking
那脆弱性怎么还会发生呢 how could vulnerability now are applied?
我想要从实质方面谈一下 And here I want to get concrete
我研究了殖民时期美国早期的宪法 I have looked at the history of early constitutions
这是一份由经验催生的宪法 that grew out of experience in colonial America
这是一个很特殊的历史时期 And this is a unique kind of historical moment
但这个时期产生了很多先例 but it does provide some precedent
殖民时期的美国 The evil in colonial America
对某些团体的歧视并不是罪恶 was not discrimination against some groups
相反 对特权团体的区别待遇才是罪恶 but discrimination in favor of privileged groups
当时的社会通过建立机构 A society that benefited some by structuring institutions
使一部分人获利 are to address them
而其他人置身于这些保护结构之外 while leaving others who shared the same vulnerabilities
暴露于脆弱性的影响之下 outside of the protective structure
这被视作是不对的 That was viewed as the problem
有趣的是关于同性婚姻的讨论 Interestingly the same-sex marriage debates
反映了现代对于平等这一概念的应用 reveal a contemporary application for this notion of equality
这里我们所说的平等 again equality
关注的还是特权阶级的待遇 而非歧视本身 that looks at privileging not at discrimination
在同性婚姻的案例中 In some of the cases involving same-sex marriage
原告提出的很多论点都是基于 plaintiffs focused all there the arguments on the privileges
关于婚姻的特权的 that were associated with marriage
他们认为国家有义务 And they argued that the state had an obligation
为所有人提供婚姻关系所固有的所有利益 to provide those benefits inherent in the marital relationship to all
所以婚姻被看作 So marriage was the conferral
一种社会利益和物质财富的赋予 of social benefits and material goods
通过婚姻系统 为人们提供了财产 Assets provided though the system of marriage
1999年 最高法院根据美国早期法律 In 1999 the Supreme Court looked into its own earlier American history
认为同性夫妻同样有权 and held that same sex couple were in fact entitled
获得同样的利益和保护 to receive those benefits and protections
过去这些利益和保护的受益者 that were previously afforded
仅限于异性婚内夫妻 only to heterosexual married couples
国家通过婚姻这种机制 Marriage was the institution through which the state
为婚姻双方提供特权 并补贴某些关系 privileged and subsidized certain relationships
为某些给予财产 delivered assets to some
最高法院将利益或财产 The Court's rationale
扩展到对同性夫妻适用的决定 in extending those benefits or assets
其背后的根本原因 to same sex couples
并不在于形式平等 derived not from arguments based on formal equality
也就是美国宪法所明确的平等保护条例 under the equal protection clause of US constitution
而在于宪法之前更广义的平等 but from a more expensive and earlier notion of equality
源自佛蒙特州在殖民时期的经验 that was derived from experience of Vermont in its colonial stage
佛蒙特宪法对于共同利益的规定 The Vermont constitutions common benefits clause
早于第十四条修正案 predated the 14th amendment
它不是基于 歧视 这一概念 It was not based on the concept of discrimination
目的也不是局限于 Not was it focused only
保护特定的人群 on protection for specific categories of persons
所以这也是可以广泛应用的 So you see again universal in its application
共同利益条例是这么规定的 我引用一部分 The common benefits clause states in part, quote:
政府成立的目的是 或者说应该是 "the government is or ought to be like that instituted
使国家或地区的全体人民 for the common benefit protection and security
享受到共同利益 保护和安全 of the people, nation or community
而不是为了作为社区一部分的 and not for the particular advantage
某个人 某个家庭 或者某一些人 of any single person, family, or set of persons
能获得特殊利益 who are only part of that community"
这就是共同利益条款 Common benefits
佛蒙特法庭认为 联邦司法方面 The Vermont court distinguished federal jurisprudence
和佛蒙特法庭本身 from its interpretation
对这一共同利益条例的诠释 是有区别的 of Vermont's common benefits clause
法庭认为该条例关注的是结果 which it characterized as a matter of concerns with ends
而不是手段 rather than means
据载 联邦法庭十分尊重 It noted that federal courts have been broadly deferential to
这条立法特权 the legislative prerogative
甚至实际提前规划好了政府的目的 to actually define in advance a governmental ends
联邦法庭想要监控的是手段 What the federal courts tend to monitor are the means
也就是我们是否获得了形式上的平等 Do we have formal equality here?
这和政府的目的 And it does a very just and reasonable relationship
有着公正且合理的联系 to a government objective
相比之下法庭告诉我们 By contrast the court told us
共同利益条例的理论支持就是 underpinning the common benefits clause was the notion that quote:
法律一视同仁地为每个佛蒙特人提供 "the law uniformly afforded every Vermonter
利益 保护和安全 its benefit protection and security
这样一来 社会和政治上的成就所反映的是 So that social and political preeminence would reflect
个人在能力 性情和美德方面的差异 differences of capacity disposition and virtue
而不是其受到政府的垂青和特权 rather than governmental favor and privilege"
这代表的是一种关注结果的分析 This represented an end focused analysis
而不是关注过程的分析 not a means focused analysis
大家还将发现 这个条例禁止的 The majority continued noting that the clause prohibits
不是弱势群体不能享有权利 not the denial of rights to the oppressed
而是特权阶级享受优待 but rather the conferral of advantages upon the privileged
共同利益条例的核心思想就是 Further the common benefits clause "at its core expressed
政府要为 a vision of government
全体佛蒙特公民提供利益和保护 that afforded every Vermonter its benefit and protection
不允许任何佛蒙特公民享受优待 And provide no Vermonter particular advantage"
高院 多数意见的判定是 不应对 The majority opinion was not limiting the potential classes
权益受到共同利益条例保护 whose interests may be protected
这些群体作出限制 也就是说 under common benefits clause to those groups
美国最高法庭所认定的适用群体 that were identified by the United States Supreme Court jurisprudence
并不是特定的某个群体 So it wasn't focused on specific groups
而是所有的佛蒙特公民 It was all Vermonters
法庭认为 As the court noted
原告受到了并被赋予了 "the plaintiffs are afforded the common benefits
第七条法案的保护与权益 and protections of article seven
并不是因为他们属于某个特定群体 Not because they are part of a suspect class
而是因为他们都是佛蒙特社区的一份子 But because they are part of the Vermont community"
这个事实迫使法庭 This fact alone compelled the court
整顿政治秩序 to "police a political process
因为其产生的结果 whose product frequently
经常会体现在利益和权力方面 discriminates between citizens
对公民进行区别对待 in respect to benefits and privileges"
这种从脆弱性角度进行的探索对我来说 Now this type of inquiry signals for me
是卓有成效的 from the perspective of vulnerability to be a fruitful one
如果我们想要获得实质的平等 If what we want is substantive equality
如果我们考虑的 if what we are concerned about
是结果的公平或者是平等 is the fairness or the equality of the outcome
这一切对于我们这些渴望更加公平 So what does all of this mean to those of us
和平等社会的人 意味着什么呢？ who want more just and equal society?
就我个人而已 平等就意味着 For me equality must escape the boundaries
要摆脱法律强加给身份的各种界定与局限 that have been imposed upon it by a jurisprudence of identity
以及区别对待 and discrimination
还有以此为基础的周边的政策 and politics that have grown up about it around it
真正的平等并不能 The promise of equality cannot be conditioned upon
为某一个身份类别量身打造 the long into any identity category
也不能只赋予给特定的空间或机构 Nor can it be confined only to certain spaces and institutions
无论是公共的还是私有的 Be they public or public
平等必须是一种普遍存在的资源 Equality must be a universal resource
一种坚定的保证 保证所有人都能享有利益 a radical guarantee that provides benefits for all
因为毕竟我们所有人都是脆弱的 For we are all after all otherwise vulnerable
谢谢 Thank you
如果大家有问题 So if anyone has a question
或者要提出自己的观点或者(听不清) or argument or (INAUDIBLE)
请用麦克风提问 别人是这么跟我讲的 I am instructed to ask you please to use the microphone
这样才可以录音 So that it can be recorded
大家都赞同我说的吗？ Everyone agrees?
学生:我有一点疑问 Student: I just wonder pressure a little bit on
就是你对于依赖性和脆弱性的区别 I guess your distinction between dependency and vulnerability
我觉得没必要像你说的那样 I don't see the need to make as you said
将二者区分开来 important distinctions between the two
或者说没必要将依赖性说成 or to necessarily cabin dependency is something
周期性而且是间歇存在的 that is episodic or not constant
我认为正好相反 I in fact argue the opposite
我认为依赖性是持续存在的 That it is constant
单一的 但确实是周期性的 and unique thing but episodic
我的问题就是 I am wondering
如果你没有把脆弱性和依赖性二者区别开来 how that would change analysis
分析结果会发生 if you did not make that distinction
怎样的改变 between vulnerability and dependency
我觉得在你研究的第三阶段 I think you'd reached the same outcomes
已经得出了同样的结论 in your phase three
我想请您就区别二者的必要性多讲一些 And I guess I just wonder press you a little bit on the need for that
其必要性的证明其实 Yeah I guess a part of evidence just in evolution
就在研究发展的过程中 我也觉得 and I thought just the same way
早期的研究使得依赖性这个问题变复杂 that the earlier work complicated the idea of dependency thing
因为存在着很多种依赖性 There are multiple forms of dependency
我和很多组织都讨论过 You know I go out and talk to lots of difference groups
总之就是和很多不同的组织讨论过依赖性 But anyway lots of different groups about dependency
他们的反应很有意思 and their responses are really quite interesting
他们都反对我所说的 People resist what I am saying about it
他们无一例外的认为 And they tend to view it
依赖性是消极的 不好的 in this kind of unidimensional way dependency bad
我可没有依赖别人 I am not a dependent
所以存在一种抵触心理 So there is a kind of resistance there
这就是为什么我想把依赖性 which is, why I try to fashion the dependency discussion
分成两类 down into two kinds
也就是必然依赖性和衍生性依赖性 inevitable and derivative
还分别从社会和个人 and talk about the social and individual dimensions
这两个角度分析 you know pair that of
我认为这种思考方法大有裨益 which I think is helpful in thinking about it
脆弱性也是一样 The same thing was vulnerability
因为人们有一样的反应 because of course people stand there
这一点我不打算展开来讲 And this is the part of the argument which I don't go into here
但是我的书里有一整章 but which is a whole chapter in the book
谈的是重新思考自由主体 which is rethinking the liberal subject
因为我们谈到自由主体的时候 because when we talk about the liberal subject
很多女性主义者会批评说 You know there's been a lot of feminist criticism about that
所有的自由主体都是自主的 All the liberal subject is autonomous
自由主体都是独立的 诸如此类 The liberal subject is independent so forth and so on
我们已经不具有依赖性了 You know we are moving dependency from the thing
但是我会认为自由主体同时也是一个成年人 But I would make the point that the liberal subject is also an adult
成年阶段 You know an adult it's something
既没有开头 也没有结尾 you doesn't have a beginning and an end
当我们想到这个问题的时候 It doesn't it is not embodied the kind of figure
它并不是一个符号 when we think about it
这就是为什么我认为脆弱性的概念是有意义的 So this is where the concept of vulnerability is useful for me
因为我们要重新思考 Because it takes as if we have to rethink the notion
法律意义上独立自主的主体 that we can have independent autonomous subject of law
和随时都有可能 and think about someone
变为依赖于别人的主体 who is constantly in threat of becoming dependent
这就是脆弱性 我们都很脆弱 That's the vulnerability so we are vulnerable
我们随时都可能变得依赖于别人 because any of us might at any time become dependent
因为存在着各种灾难 through all of this variety of different kinds of disasters
会威胁到我们的独立性 assaults upon our independence
所以我认为这个角度的考虑是必要的 So it's to add that dimension that I think I need this
而且我很高兴其理论方面已经取得了成果 And I might should kind of excited about what does that theoretically
把话筒传给 Just tap it, go up to the鈥�
学生:我想接着刚刚那个问题往下问 Student: This is a kind of follow-up question
人们当然还是希望能够自主 While autonomy is still being an ideal
看来 你认为脆弱性和依赖性 It sounds as though you know vulnerability and dependency
仍然和弱小联系在一起 are still associated with weakness
一方面你还是认为 And kind of binary you could think well
自主是一种道德理想 autonomy is still the moral ideal
但另一方面你的分析指出 And yet in some ways your analysis suggests that
你希望能更加彻底地质疑自由主体 you wanna question the liberal subject more radically
你还有其他备选的道德理想状态或者观点吗？ Do you have an alternative ideal or moral vision?
教授:我承认自主性的优越性 Prof: A notion of autonomy
也需要重新考虑自主性 but it's rethinking autonomy too
我们是围绕着这条主线来考虑 We are thinking about it along the lines at framing
当我们考虑自主性 when we think about autonomy
自主性必须在平等的条件下产生 Autonomy must be produced under conditions of equality
也就是社会现行的组织方式 or the way we kind of organize society now
就是这种自主性决定了我们所谓的平等 It's autonomy that defines what we mean by equality
所以要保护自由 So it's the liberty interest
国家就不能干预资源的重新分配 that means the state should not interfere to redistribute resources
也不能干预以保证财富 or ensure more adequate
在社会中得到更加充分和平等的分配 or more equal distribution of assets across society
所以说自主性加深了我们对于平等的理解 So autonomy drives our understanding of equality
我们换了一个角度 I think we switched the other way around
得出这个平等的概念 and have this notion of equality
从而定义主体的自主性 and then define autonomy which arises from the subject
前提是这个主体拥有足够的资源和支持 having adequate resources and support
能够在现有的选择之中做出决定 to make choices between available options
个人的选择一旦多了 increase the possibility of options for individuals
这样我们也可以重新考虑自主性了 That we can be into rethink autonomy too
学生:我有两个问题 Student: I really have two questions
一个问题关于法学 另一个问题跟哲学有关 One is more legal and one is more philosophical
在法律的问题方面 On the legal questions basically one of the pieces
你的观点的一个理论支持 that you rely on to support this notion
就是你刚刚提到的佛蒙特条例 is Vermont clause that you talked about
你觉得这和特权及豁免权的条例是否冲突呢 How would you square that with the notion of privileges and immunities
不仅是美国宪法框架下 还包括美国的法学 in not only the US constitution but in American legal thought
在我看来 具体要看观点是怎么发展的 which seems to me potentially depending upon
具体又是如何跟这个观念相契合 how broadly it is developed to be consistent with that notion
但是这一点通常会被认为 But as it is more commonly interpreted
与你的见解是背道而驰的 to be antithetical to your notion
教授:特权和豁免权条例 Prof: The privileges and immunities clause
大多用于这样的法庭和法律利益 is mostly applied to like court things and legal kind of benefits
即一个国家不能否定另一国公民的利益 that one state cannot deny a citizen of another state
但是我想到了和这个问题相关的 But I think more relevant in that regard is
一些之前的案例 some of the earlier cases
这些案件里 国家公民的身份被完全地忽视了 which say they really take the content of national citizenship away
而是用州的框架来套 and place it with a state
所以美国所赋予的公民身份 So the United States guarantees a national citizenship
其实是非常基本的 are relatively minimal
真正的内容都由各个州来补完 And that's really located within states
除了《权利法案》和一系列消极权利法案 except the Bill of Rights and variety essentially negative guarantees
其它的内容都是各个州来补完的 It's the states that give the substance
别人的宪法做不到这一点 We are not supposed to do this with their Constitution
而美国的宪法就可以 in contrast with the United States Constitution
学生:但是第四条法案中 Student: But there's also this privilege and immunities clause
还是存在特权和豁免权 of article four
其应用范围 您应当了解 还是很广泛的 which is you know basically broader than that in a number of ways
至少对于某些工作的定义是更加宽泛的 at least potentially defined a broader way relating to certainly work
也被应用于人类的活动 and engaging in human tasks
同时还涵盖了教育 But perhaps also to encompass education
以及相关问题 rather some problems or that argument
我只是觉得这是一个有潜力相互影响的领域 At any rate I just think it's a fertile interplay area
教授:但是教育…… Prof: But with education to鈥�
教育平等和教育资金的东西 like the notion of equality and funding for education
并不是由联邦宪法的判例决定的 came not from the federal constitution cases
而是来自各个州 由各个具体的州 but from the state I mean it came from individual state
赋予这项权利 that's giving that
学生:是的 在Rogers诉Favre州案之后 Student: Yeah, in the aftermath of Rogers vs Favre States case
和联邦这个概念的建构中 的确如此 and construction of you will the federal notion
但是我还有一个问题 But I guess on the other question that I have
是跟哲学有关 这是从广义经济学角度提出的 is more philosophical and kind of from a long economics angle
就是关于刺激激励的 And that is what about incentives
你的观点中 认为 机构所给出的 It is the system that you are arguing for one
激励措施 that is going to incentivize
所激发的依赖性和脆弱性 if you will dependency or vulnerability in ways
其对整个社会的影响也许 might perhaps have affects on the society as a whole
与你假设并努力实现的目标 that are contrary to the ones
正好相反 that you are hypothesizing and trying to accomplish
教授:没错 之前关于依赖性的分析 Prof: Yeah, part of that is answered
回答了一部分 by the analysis in the dependency part of argument
我写过很多相关的文章 I have written a lot on this
这里我就简单提一点 but one of the arguments I mentioned just briefly here
我曾经做过一次分析 One of the analyses that I do is just show the way
发现现行体制下的大型社会 that the larger society under existing structures
完全依赖于家庭内部的工作 is totally dependent on this work that takes place within a family
这已经内化了 and it's appropriated
激励措施所产生的后果可以有很多种 So you know incentives go all sorts of directions
鉴于目前机构的建构方式目前的激励措施 and the way that systems are structured now is not necessarily,
我认为 不能被看作是有效的(听不清) I would say you can not defend it as efficient (INAUDIBLE)
如果我们重新考虑社会和激励措施的分配 And sure we are gonna redistribute incentives
我们自然会重新分配激励措施 if we rethink societies what we distribute incentives
但是反对我们进行这种重新考虑的一些言论 But saying that in somehow and other argument against that rethinking
认为现行的激励措施体系 assumes the current system of incentives
会比我们未来提出的新方案更好 are somehow superior to what we might come up with
我会认为这是错误的 That's what I would argue that's not true, yeah
学生:我对于体制的细节方面很感兴趣 Student: So you know I am sort of institutional detail guy
我想了解您是怎么看 so I wanna ask about your thinking
将这些财产 服务分配给 on sort of delivery of these kinds of assets services
弱势群体的这种现象的 to vulnerable populations
我在想 I guess I am trying to think about
国家如何能确保 how the state
所给出的服务到达了正确的人手中 gets the services to the right people
我们有很多公益的社区机构 We have all sorts of community organizations nonprofits
能够脆弱群体和国家之间形成一种斡旋 that tend to mediate between the vulnerable populations and the state
但是有时这些社区组织本身也有问题 But sometimes these community groups have pathologies of their own
国家也是一样 as well as the state
所以我想了解你对于体制设计的看法 So I wonder what your thoughts on that sort of institutional design
怎样才能通过正确的渠道 How you channel the right stuff
让物质到达应得的人群手中 through the right groups of people
无论是正式的国家机构 whether they be official state actors
还是非官方的社区组织 or less formal community based organizations
教授:我们先看看你这个问题的开头 Prof: Let me just go back to the beginning of your question
还有其中的一些假设 and some assumptions that I think are underlying your鈥�
我想让大家做的 是重新思考 What I am asking you to do is to kind of rethink
社会的基础结构 the basic organization of our society
而不是考虑这些公益机构 So it's not about like finding the nonprofit organization
如何分配物质 figure out how it's going to deliver goods
而且我也不会说脆弱人群 And I am not going to talk about vulnerable populations
我说的是固有的脆弱性 存在于人类本身 I am talking about vulnerability as inherent in human condition
我们都有的那一种 something that we all share
我认为 So the way that I argue is
当今社会的结构 导致了 that the current organization of our society in fact is such
有价值的财产 无论是物质 that valuable assets be these material goods
还是人力资本还是社会财富 or human capital or social goods
都是通过我们业已建立的体系得到分配 are delivered through systems that we have established
所以这还是对最基础的东西的重新考虑 So you know again it's a rethinking on a kind of ground level
在我看来 要关注的是现存的东西 And the question for me is to look that's taking place already
分配过程已经在进行 So this distribution process is already underway
而我认为分配的方式 I would argue it's underway in a manner
导致了不平等的加剧 that results in increasing inequality
有些人被直接暴露于伤害之下 and in fact some people are abandoned to that vulnerabilities
而其他人却受到了社会机构的保护 while others are protected or cushioned from
脆弱性带来的伤害 the vulnerability they share by these social institutions
这就是为什么我想要看到 So why I want to argue for
一个更有生机 更负责任的国家 a more vital and responsive state
希望它能审视这些社会关系 in examining these kinds of social relations
找出哪里需要我们介入 to see where in fact we need to have intervention
修正这种不平等 to correct these inequalities
这样才能更公平地解决脆弱性问题 so that vulnerabilities are more equally addressed, ok
举个例子说明一下你提出的问题 So for example in things like it would mean for your area
比如说 重新审视公司架构的方式 A reexamination of the way that corporations are organized
我们这样做 对不对 So is it accurate we will start here
一个社会中的财富 是如何通过企业机构 How is wealth organized in the society through cooperative structures
经济机构还有雇佣机构组织的 through economic structures through employment structures
要如何才能达成平等 What would need to be done to kind of equalize
才能实现 比如说工人免受伤害 So the vulnerabilities of workers for example
或者说其他人受到比在现有体系中享有的 or you know others are more adequately protected
更充分的保护 than they are in the current system
学生:我了解你这种全局的视角 Student: I understand your systematic approach
假设我们要进行这种全局的审视 and assuming that so we want to do that systematic examination
我认为即便我们做了全面的审视 I guess it seems to me that even after we do this systematic review
更加具体的分配问题也还是会出现 We are gonna have these issues about more particularized delivery
可能不是一个具体项目啊什么的 我只是…… Maybe that's not a project I just something that I鈥�
教授:我只能让大家做到我想要的 Prof: I can get people to rethink on the way
一半的那种重新思考 just half of what I want them
来围绕脆弱性这条主线 to think in terms of social organizations
思考社会的架构 along the lines of vulnerability
甚至让人接受他们是脆弱的这个事实都很难 or even accept that themselves are vulnerable
有无数的社会机构在保护着 and there are multiple social institutions
这间屋里坐着的特权阶级 that protect the privileged people in this room
能这样想 我认为这已经是一个巨大的进步了 That we consider a major step managed to do that
但是你可以致力于解决问题的另一半 But you can help with the second part of the project
如果没有其他问题 我们可以提早结束 We are premature the time unless there is any other question
学生:我有一个修辞方面的问题 Student: I guess comic or plea about I guess it's more rhetorical
因为你提到了脆弱性分析 Because you mentioned that vulnerability analysis
能让我们超越身份类别的限制 allows us to move beyond identity
你反对身份的分析 to oppose identity analysis
我知道你不认为 And I know that you don't think that
我们生活在一个后身份的世界 we live in a post-identity world
我想我不太赞成这种措辞方式 So I just I would prefer not to use that language
因为我非常赞同 because I very much agree that you know
区别对待的法律条款和身份的分类 as discrimination law and as identity categories
遗落了太多的东西 miss so much
我赞同这种对权力的交错形式的分析 And I like the analysis of looking at intersecting forms of power
但是不可否认 But of course
身份的分类也是社会权力的一种形式 the identity categories are a form of social power
而且会产生物质结果 with material consequences
我认为给身份分类这种做法包含的 So I would just think it as if going including
不只是身份 more things beyond identity
所以直接跳到后身份这个说法是不是有点…… rather than going post-identity
教授:这要看你是怎么理解 后身份 Prof: I think that depends on how you view the post
这个说法的 how you view post
因为之前在第一阶段中 Because I earlier talked about in first phase of this one
我谈到了平等性 I talked about equality
我说 平等是反功利的一个概念 As something that was opposed together utilitarian, right
大家感到很疑惑 And people got confused by that
我并不是说我们不需要形式上的平等 By that I didn't mean that we don't need formal equality
由形式平等来规定 每个人该有一张选票啊 to tell us that it should be one person one vote
同工同酬啊 or equal pay for equal work, right
但是这种做法只能解决一小部分的问题 But that only solves one small part of the problems
所以你在理解它的时候必须考虑到这一点 And that you have to so you incorporate that
再加上你对平等世界的理解 and post you realization of the equal world
比如说 现在我们当然可以争论说 Because I mean we could argue now
我们生活的世界是平等的 that we all live in the world of equality
我们禁止歧视 We have lots of prohibiting discrimination
我们可以说 好吧 这是后平等时代 You know so let's say ok post-equality
无论我们是否已经实现了平等 whether you know we accept that we have all of that
这些问题都仍然存在 But we still have all these problems
所以我们要跳出平等这个观念 so we have to move beyond that
这就是我想实现的 So that's what I want to do and I am saying here
但是这绝不意味着歧视已经消失了 It doesn't mean that discrimination does not still exist
歧视会使脆弱性变得复杂 Discrimination can complicate vulnerabilities
但是我认为我们要跳出桎梏 But I really think that we have to move beyond
不能紧咬着区别对待不放 mere focus on discrimination
还有其他事情需要思考 and think about these are other kinds of things
因为我们的社会变得愈发不平等了 as we are growing into a much more unequal society
你去看看社会上发生的事就会深感震惊 I mean it's shocking when you look at what's happening to the society
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