本栏目由艾莫利大学推出 This program is brought to you by Emory University
不好意思 我在研究这新玩意 Sorry. I'm just looking at this technology
我的幻灯片在哪里？ Where is my presentation?
在这 好 很棒 There it is. OK. Excellent
大家好 谢谢大家的到来 Hello, everybody, thank you so much for coming
大家能听见吗？ Can everybody hear me?
好 首先 我想感谢汤姆·詹金斯 Great. I want to thank, first of all, Tom Jenkins
和教务处邀我前来 and the Provost's Office for inviting me
做今年的心灵生活演讲 to give a Life of the Mind lecture this year
很荣幸 It's a great honor
我还想感谢伊莉莎白·威尔逊 I also want to thank Elizabeth Wilson
应邀与我座谈 for agreeing to be my interlocutor today
以及许多为我的书做出贡献的在场嘉宾 and many people in the room have contributed to my book
你们在许多方面都帮了我 in many ways, and you know who you are
我衷心的感谢你们所有的人 I want to thank all of you; it's very heartfelt
最重要的是 谢谢你们所有到场的人 And most important, the rest of you, thank you for coming
正如汤姆所说 此次演讲以我的书为基础 So as Tom said, this talk is based on my book
今天正式发行 which is officially being launched today
这本书 The book
《福柯的疯狂理论 对酷儿理论奠基的反思》 Mad for Foucault: Rethinking the Foundations of Queer Theory
是对法国哲学家米歇尔·福柯的 is a reappraisal of the French philosopher Michel Foucault's
第一部重要作品的一次重审 first major book
《古典时期疯狂史》 which means, Madness and Unreason
《古典时期疯狂史》 History of Madness in the Classical Age
1961年第一次在法国出版 first published in French 1961
顺便说一下 福柯所说的古典时期 By the way, when Foucault says Classical Age
指的是 从17世纪中叶 he means basically from the middle of the 17th century
至18世纪末的欧洲 特别是法国 to the end of the 18th century in Europe and especially France
《疯癫和文明》这本书很长 So this book, Folie et déraison is very long
上过我课的学生都知道 as students in my seminar know
大约有七百多页 It's about 700 pages
短时间内 本书便出了删减版 It was quickly abridged
于1965年译为英语 and then translated into English in 1965
正是我们所熟知的 and it became the book many of us have known as
《疯癫与文明》 Madness and Civilization
1965年版的译文版本不及原书长度的一半 That 1965 translation is less than half of the book's original length
许多重要的内容都被删除了 and many important passages are excised from it
直到2006年这本书才被完整地译为英语版本 It wasn't until 2006 that the book was fully translated into English
译文名《疯狂史》 as History of Madness
现在有平装版本 是Rutledge丛书出的 It's now out in paperback and available from Rutledge
我强烈建议大家都去买 and I urge you all to buy it
因此 我的书的主要框架 So the main frame of my book
和我今天演讲的主题是 and of my talk today is
对福柯作为性学研究者和 A General Reappraisal of Foucault as a Thinker of Sexuality
酷儿理论奠基者的一次全面重审 and a Founding Thinker of Queer Theory
我对当代的性学问题 I'm especially interested in the problem of
特别感兴趣 sexuality in the modern era
按照《疯狂史》的说法 in light of what History of Madness tells us
性的形成与发展 about the rise of sexuality as a formation
产生于历史上 that emerges out of the historical split
理性与非理性之间的分裂 between reason and unreason
我想我可以看着我的讲稿 那样好一些 I think I can see my paper. That's better, that's better
我今天的演讲 为什么性是一种道德经验 So my talk today, Why is Sexuality a Moral Experience
将会分成如下几个部分 最后 is in several parts followed by a conversation
以与同事伊莉莎白·威尔逊的一场探讨结束 with my colleague Elizabeth Wilson
大家可以将这想像成马赛克 You might want to think of it as a kind of mosaic
最后会慢慢拼成一张图片 that will begin to form a picture
演讲第一部分大约为三十分钟 The first part of my presentation is about 30 minutes long
分为五个小部分 and is in five short parts:
爱 真相游戏 为什么性是一种道德经验？ Love, Games of Truth, Why is Sexuality a Moral Experience?
档案馆的性游戏 愚人之笑 Sex Play in the Archives and A Fool's Laughter
你们或许会从我的演讲中发现两种不同的叙事 You may detect two different narrative voices in my presentation
这两种叙事再现了我的书中的双重叙事 Those two voices reproduce the double narrative of the book
在书中 我讲了一个相当复杂的哲学故事 In the book, I tell a fairly complex philosophical story
关于理性的故事 a story of reason
可称之为心灵生活 what we might call the life of the mind
这个故事 多次被插入其间的另一种声音打断 that is repeatedly interrupted by interludes
这另一种声音以非理性的 in the form of an non-philosophical
或者非哲学的形式出现 or unreasonable voice
并受身体自身的生命与感情所左右 that is swayed by affect and the life of the body
因此 两种声音的对话中 So in the dialogic play between the two voices
我尝试对它们之间所存在的空间给予更多关注 I try to bring attention to that between space
即 身体和心灵间的分裂或联系 The space of division or hyphen in the mind-body split
在关注这种空间的同时 And in bringing attention to that space
我努力想激发 这两种 I hope to trigger a kind of reverberation
一种哲学 一种非哲学的声音 between the two voices
它们之间的一种激荡 the philosophical and non-philosophical
少了彼此 就无法产生的一种激荡 Neither voice can produce by itself
从概念上讲 双重的声音也能提醒我们 In conceptual terms, the double voice also serves as a reminder
真相和历史 that neither truth or the past
无法被理解成一种单一的叙事线索 can be captured as a singular narrative line
这两种声音间的互动 也提醒我们 The play between the voices is a reminder
福柯的作品 归根结底 是一种决裂 that ultimately Foucault's project was one of rupture
他说 我的书就像是鞭炮 His books are firecrackers, he says
爆开了小型的火花 激荡 little explosions that reverberate
继而消逝 最后融入 and then disappearing by their own effect are taken up
它们所属的一系列事件中 into the series of events to which they belong
第一节 爱 1. Love
我想以福柯一位朋友为他写的铭文开头 I start with an epigraph from Foucault's friend
哲学家 吉勒斯·德勒兹于1973年 写道 the philosopher Gilles Deleuze, from 1973
这种精读的方式 This intensive way of reading
与书外世界的接触 in contact with what's outside the book
像一股水流汇入别的水流 as a flow meeting other flows
万台机器间的某一台 one machine among others
像是事件中为每位读者所准备的一系列实验 as a series of experiments for each reader in the midst of events
与书无关 that have nothing to do with books
就好像将书撕成碎片 as tearing the book into pieces
让书与其他事物进行互动 getting it to interact with other things
一切的一切 这些 就是用爱去读 absolutely anything…is reading with love
我的书就是一个用爱去读福柯的故事 My book is a story about reading Foucault with love
当我开始写的时候 When I started the project
我已经教授 研究福柯许多年了 I had been studying and teaching Foucault for number of years
但却从未下定决心写关于他的东西 but had never committed myself to writing about him
这回不太情愿地下了决心 部分是由于 This half-hearted commitment was due in part
我对他的作品有种强烈的矛盾心理 to my intense ambivalence about his work
像许多女权主义者 我尊敬福柯的才华 Like many feminists, I admired Foucault's brilliance
但却对他表现出的对女权主义的漠不关心 but felt uneasy about his seeming
感到不安 indifference to feminist concerns
于是 在2006年九月 Then, in September 2006
我在诺曼底的福柯档案馆待了一个月 I spent a month in the Foucault Archives in Normandy
那是我 That's me
那段经历正是德勒兹所说的 That experience of what Deleuze calls a contact with
与书外世界的接触 what's outside the book
那不仅改变了我以前对福柯的看法 not only shifted what I thought I knew about Foucault
也改变了我摇摆不定的心情 but also transformed my hot and cold feelings
突然 我被一股热情燃烧 Suddenly, I burned with passion
我在档案馆的那段经历 My archival encounter was nothing less than
正是一种决裂 an experience with rupture
我就像德勒兹的书 被撕得粉碎 I was like Deleuze's book, torn to pieces
回到亚特兰大后 Returning home to Atlanta
我重拾碎片 并发现了一个与众不同的福柯 I gathered the pieces and found a shape of a different Foucault
一种不同的女权主义 a different feminism
和一种不同的酷儿理论 and a different queer theory than what I had known
第二节 真相游戏 2. Games of Truth
与历史学家不同的是 Unlike some historians
我并没有在档案馆发现什么真相 I did not find the truth in the Archives
而是发现了一些杂乱无章的文件 I found instead a messy tangle of documents
它们让福柯所称的 that complicated
真相游戏 更加复杂了 what Foucault calls Games of Truth
我工作中要整理大量的材料 Games of truth I'd already been playing
因此 一直以来我都在玩真相游戏 with the mess of materials I'd already pulled together
这是不可避免的 as we inevitably do
这个过程中 我发现了福柯身上的一种连贯性 and had given a coherence I was calling Foucault
在诺曼底档案馆 While in Normandy at the Archives
我听了一些福柯在法兰西学院 I listened to recordings of some of Foucault's courses
讲课的录音 at the College de France
查阅了一些 20世纪70年代早期 looked at some documents
福柯关于反对监狱的 related to his anti-prison activism
维权活动的文件 in the early 1970s
然后 花了大量时间仔细阅读了一系列采访 then spent most of my time carefully going over an interview
福柯与一个法国记者 Foucault did with a French journalist
Roger-Pol Droit 1975年的访谈 named Roger-Pol Droit in 1975
福柯同意与记者进行一系列 Foucault has consented to engage in
长达15个小时的谈话 a 15-hour conversation with
谈话分次进行 Droit, over the course of several sessions
其中的精华将作为一本书 由Flammarion the culmination of which would be its publication as a book
出版社出版 with Flammarion
看起来福柯对结果并不满意 It appears Foucault was dissatisfied with the results
拒绝出版并退还 refusing publication and returning the money
他收到的预付款 he had received as an advance
Droit随后出版了小部分采访 Droit subsequently published small parts of the interview
但是 大部分仍然未修订出版 but most of it remains in unedited and unpublished form
只有四百页手稿可用于查阅 as 400 typed manuscript pages available for consultation
在诺曼底 at the Institution Mémoire de l'Edition Contemporaine
档案管委会 or IMEC in Normandy
福柯档案馆里收藏 where the Foucault Archives are housed
我猜想 福柯不喜欢这个采访的原因之一是 I suspect that one of the reasons Foucault disliked this interview
采访始终对福柯生平传记更感兴趣 so much was its insistent tilt toward the biographical
回答Droit问题的时候 福柯一再发现 Over and over, Foucault remarks on his recourse to biography
提出的问题都是针对他生平的 in his attempts to answer Droit's questions
访谈最后 Toward the end of the interview
情形分崩离析 福柯礼貌地声称 as things unravel and Foucault respectfully declares
他对他们之间的合作并不满意 that he isn't satisfied with the result of their work together
他描述道 这是一场令人窒息的经历 he describes an experience of suffocation
福柯抱怨说 Foucault complains that
这些问题全是 针对我本人 关于我本人的 these suffocating questions
迫使他必须讲述自己真实的生活 to me and about me forced him to
令人窒息 resort to biographical answers
我理解福柯的不安 I understand this discomfort
也理解他想要摆脱这种窒息 and gasping for breath
但是 在其他采访中 福柯证实说 他的思考方法 For although in other interviews, Foucault asserts that his thinking
是在实际生活中成形的 缺了生活 就没有意义 is clearly shaped by autobiography, context is everything
因此 这种不安 Perhaps because of
或许是因为Droit的访谈太过冗长了 the sheer length of the Droit interview
到头来 it ends up
在试图界定福柯这个人 福柯的自我的时候 feeling more insistent, more despotic
就显得格外不依不饶 格外专横 in its attempts to pin down this self, this I, this Foucault
而短点的采访则没有这样的问题 than most of the shorter interviews
我们知道 福柯终身都努力在摆脱自我 And given Foucault's lifelong efforts to undo the self
并质疑人文主义关于自我 是非分裂 to interrogate the humanist illusion of an unsplit
本我一致的观点 self-identical coherent I
因此 他对于这种不依不饶的追问感到不安 his discomfort with the insistence
是合理的 makes sense
但是 福柯的不安 Still, what emerges out of all this discomfort
和Droit想要界定福柯的企图 最终产生的 and all these attempts by Droit to pin him down
是一种私人的忏悔 诉说的过程 is a personal confession
正是自我揭露的过程 that in speaking the I unravels itself
这个过程中自我即逐步展开 in the very moment of its self-disclosure
随着访谈转入疯癫话题 As the conversation turns to the topic of madness
和福柯的第一本书 and Foucault's first book
福柯提醒Droit说 虽然说《疯狂史》一书 Foucault reminds Droit that although History of Madness
是福柯写作生涯的起步 marks the beginning of his writing efforts
但福柯一直以来都还是对疯癫感兴趣 his interest in madness has never left him
福柯说 20年来 He says, for 20 years now
我一直都在关注我的小疯子们 I've been worrying about my little mad ones
这些被排斥的人 不正常的人 my little excluded ones, my little abnormals
法语原文如下 And in French is
Droit追问道 可是究竟为什么 But why exactly, Droit wants to know
福柯坚持要写《疯狂史》一书呢？ did Foucault insist on writing History of Madness?
福柯回答 在我的生命中 Foucault responds: In my personal life
从性意识觉醒那时 我就感觉自己被排除在外 from the moment of my sexual awakening, I felt excluded
不是说被社会排斥 而是说 我属于社会的阴影 not so much rejected, but belonging to society's shadow
当你发现自己身陷其中 It's all the more a problem
它就不只是一个问题了 when you discover it for yourself
所有的这一切很快就会变成 All of this was very quickly transformed into
一种心理病学上的威胁 a kind of psychiatric threat
如果你和其他人不一样 那就说明你不正常 If you're not like everyone else, it's because you're abnormal
如果你不正常 那就说明你有病 If you're abnormal, it's because you're sick
鉴于福柯不愿意 Given Foucault's own reticence to
谈论自己的性经验 talk about his sexual experience
他的出柜与法国恐同文化的抗争 his coming out or his personal negotiation of
福柯正是生活在这样的文化中 the homophobic French culture to which he belonged
因此 这场忏悔是很有戏剧性的 至少对我而言 this confession is dramatic, at least for me
我们大多数人都认为 Most of us have thought
正如朱迪丝·巴特勒的《性别困扰》指出 as Judith Butler does in Gender Trouble
福柯 始终拒绝忏悔的时刻 that Foucault always resisted the confessional moment
但这里 在他描述自己性意识的觉醒 But here, in his description of his sexual awakening
他的被排斥感 和精神病理学 可能给他贴上 his feelings of exclusion and the shock of a psychiatric threat
不正常或者有病的标签的威胁的时候 that would label him as abnormal and sick
福柯说 自己很认同那些 Foucault declares his solidarity with those
属于社会阴影的人 who belong to society's shadow
那些他称为被排斥 those he calls the little excluded ones
疯子 不正常的小家伙 my little mad ones, my little abnormals
正是这种认同感 让他像他们 In that solidarity, he is like them
一个敞开的自我 一个不能被下结论的人 an unraveled self, a self that cannot be pinned down
当我读到这段时 When I came across this passage
我对发现这样的一段忏悔感到震惊 I was immediately thrilled to have discovered such a confession
那晚 我跟同事提到了这篇文章 Later that evening, I mentioned the passage to my companions
他们在档案馆研究其他作家 at the Archives who were working on other writers
他们茫然地看着我 嗯？ 他们回答 那又怎样？ They stared at me blankly. Yeah? they responded. So what?
他们不仅不觉得怎么样 Not only were they unimpressed
反而使我对自己的兴奋感到有点愚蠢 but they left me feeling a bit silly about my excitement
然后 我写信给我的美国朋友 Then I wrote to my American friends
迈克尔·穆恩和乔纳森·格尔登伯格 Michael Moon and Jonathan Goldberg
他们都是著名的酷儿理论学家 both of them prominent queer theorists
即使是通过电子邮件 and even via email
收到这篇文章的他们也感受到了 they received the passage
跟我一样的激情 with the same kind of passion I had felt
我们兴奋得都要跳起来了 他们说 We're on the edge of our seats they said
如果不是这种共同的激情 Without that shared passion
我或许早已撒手不干了 I probably would have let the whole thing drop
他们激励了我留在那种感觉里 They encouraged me to stay with the feeling
这种非常美国式的 一见钟情 my oh-so-American coup de foutre
就是那个时刻 and that marks the moment
我对福柯 when the ground of my understanding
以及性的理解完全动摇了 of Foucault and sexuality shifted
我知道我坚持引用这段未出版的 I know that my insistence on
福柯本人不喜欢的访谈 citing an unpublished interview
或许有人会认为是对福柯的不忠 Foucault disliked will be seen by some as disloyal
或者至少说事做得不漂亮 or at the very least, in bad taste
但我不这么认为 But I see it differently
尽管大部分没有出版 Although mostly unpublished
这个访谈已经汇编成了一本书 the interview has become a book of sorts
四百页 有闲的人 有钱的人 喜欢旅游的人 400 pages available for reading to those with the time
都可以找来读一读 resources and inclination to travel
去游览一下这家诺曼底翻新的中世纪修道院 to a refurbished medieval monastery in Normandy
这个访谈作为一本书 As a book, the interview
在客观事件中占据一席地位 takes its place as an object event
正如福柯在1972年版前言中说 that as Foucault insisted in his 1972 preface
必须摆脱写书者本人 must evade the grip of the person
即作者的的限制 这种情况下 who wrote it or in this case
则是谈话者本人 spoke it in conversation
与其作为一个羞耻的秘密 Rather than being shut away as
受到摒弃 不见天日 a shameful secret never to be uncovered
倒不如让这本书 this book event must finally
最终融入一系列事件中 最终消失 disappear into the series of events
这本是属于它的地方 to which it belongs
福柯还提醒我们 事件到这里 远未结束 Events Foucault reminds us, which are far from being over
或许这场使我头脑发热的 一见钟情 So perhaps this coup de foutre that sparked a fever in me
以前我从未对文献如此狂热过 an archive fever I'd never caught before
而且现在我还没有完全恢复 and from which I have yet to recover
也许这场一见钟情 can be perceived as the most loyal kind of
就是对福柯最忠诚的一场背叛 disloyalty to Foucault
或许这可以被看做是一种发现事件 Perhaps it can be received as an event of discovery
从而激发德勒兹所说的一种 抵抗性思考 that engenders what Deleuze calls a resistant thinking
对专横的解读的一种抵抗 A thought of resistance to the despotic readings
这种专横的解读 that refuse to see
拒绝承认福柯作为酷儿的疯癫 Foucault's queer madness
第三节 为什么性是一种道德经验？ 3.Why is Sexuality a Moral Experience?
福柯生前最后一次访谈中 他问道 Foucault asked toward the end of his life in his final interview
性行为是如何成为一种道德经验的？ how was it that sexuality became a moral experience?
就是带着这个问题 This is the question
我今天和大家一起站在这里探讨 with which I've lured you to my talk
对于福柯来说 It's true that for Foucault
性行为与道德间的关系是至关重要的 this question of relation between sexuality and morality is crucial
促使我开始探索福柯的 One of the things that spurred me to
原因之一是 begin my exploration of Foucault
我对性别伦理很感兴趣 was my own interest in the ethics of sex
一开始 我就对一些伦理辩题很着迷 I was first of all interested in some of the ethical debates
这些辩题正是女权主义和酷儿理论之间的分歧 that have divided feminists from queers
下面我给大家举一些极端例子 For example, and these are the extreme ends of the spectrum
女权主义法学者 the feminist legal theorist
凯瑟琳·麦金农极力主张 Catherine McKinnon has argued vehemently
性正是妇女受压迫的根源 that sexuality is at the root of women's oppression
她认为 国家资源被利用起来 以保护 and has used the resources of the state to protect
妇女免受性的侵害 women against sexual harms
另一方面 比较靠近酷儿理论的那一派 At the other, more queer end of the spectrum
珍妮特·哈雷 也是一位法理学者 Janet Halley, also a legal theorist
他认为 女权主义出发的措施 he argues that these feminist measures
对性自由有着抑制作用 have a chilling effect on sexual freedom
并且比较严厉 and are harnessed to
会对仅仅是属于性癖好的行为作出惩罚 punish what is merely kinky behavior
让我把这个放进更大的背景中来探讨 Let me put this in a larger context
纵观这些辩论 Looking at these kinds of debates
我越来越多的看到 I saw more and more that
在关于性伦理问题的思考中 there was an asymmetry
出现了一种不对称性 in thinking about sexual ethics
具体来说 我认为大多数人会同意 Specifically, well, I think most would agree
女权主义伦理思想有一个强大的传统 there is a robust tradition of feminist ethical thinking
规范伦理 美德伦理 normative ethics, virtue ethics
保护伦理(听不清)等等 ethics of care, (INAUDIBLE) and so forth
酷儿理论一直以来都不愿意与伦理并肩 Queer theory has been loathed to engage with ethics
这种情况的理由是很充分的 in any sustained way and for good reason
我想现在 近期以来 情况已经改变了 I think that's changing now, that's fairly recent
伦理和道德 Ethics and morality are weapons
经常被用作是对付我们的武器 that have often been used against us
但是 我认为 我们是无法简单地逃避伦理的 I don't think, however, that we can simply eschew ethics
事实上 不管我们喜不喜欢 Indeed, we're in the soup called ethics
我们都置身在伦理之内 Ethics is the field of understanding…
这是艾默里大学伦理学中心的主页 whether we like it or not
这里有一个关于伦理的 完美的定义 Here's the homepage of the Emory Center for Ethics
伦理是理解的领域…… They give a nice definition of ethics
大家能看清楚吗？好 Can you guys read that? Ok
伦理学是通过与价值观的关系 Ethics is the field of understanding
来理解人类行为的一门学科领域 human behavior in relation to values
伦理学家仔细审慎地研究 人类如何思考 Ethicists carefully and critically explore how we think about
并断定孰对孰错 and determine right and wrong
分析其中的标准和动机 and analyze the standards and motivations
控制个人和团体行为的动机 that govern personal and group action
伦理形成了几乎所有个人决策的基础 Ethics forms the basis of almost all personal decision making
不管我们意识到与否 whether we are aware of it or not
在职业生活中的决策同样如此 The same is true of decision making in professional life
包括商业 法律和医学 including business, law and medicine
公民权利 政治生活和社会公正的问题上 in civil and political life and in questions of social justice
正如你们从这张幻灯片中看到的 And as you can see in this slide
他们使用各种各样的问题 关于同性恋 变性 they use various questions about homosexuality, transgender
和乱交 and promiscuity
作为伦理问题的典型例子之一 as one of their banner examples of ethical questions
例子实际上有三个 There actually are three of them
有一个关于人类与自然的关系 There's one about our relationship to nature
另一个关于堕胎与生命权 There's another about abortion and right to life
毫无疑问 性行为是一种道德经验 There's no question that sexuality is a moral experience
不管我们承认与否 whether we like it or not
但是 到底为什么这些属于道德问题范畴？ But why exactly are these moral questions?
我们应该允许同性恋结婚吗？ Should we allow gay marriages?
我们应该专门开设变性人用的洗手间吗？ Should we establish transgender bathrooms?
同性伙伴关系应该合法化吗？ Should same-sex partnerships be legalized?
我们应该同意多配偶制的婚姻形式吗？ Should we allow polygamist marriages?
这是错误的吗？ Is this wrong?
一个人如何做出伦理抉择？ How does a person make ethical decisions?
同样 为什么这些都属于道德问题？ Again, why are these moral questions?
性行为是如何成为一种道德经验的？ How is it that sexuality became a moral experience?
我们又是谁？有权决定这些事情是对是错的 And who is this we, this neutral person who will be deciding
中立人士 又究竟是谁？ whether these things are right or wrong?
福柯所探求的问题之一 One of the things Foucault does
就是我题目中的这个问题 is he gets at the question of my title
为什么性行为是一种道德经验？ why is sexuality a moral experience?
通过看这个问题中的我们 或者说人 By looking at this question of the we, or the person
我们称之为道德主体 the one we might call the moral subject
与道德有关的问题之一 在福柯看来 One of the problems with morality, in Foucault's view
是许多道德主张 在提出的时候 is that many moral claims
都没有对这些主张的 are made without an interrogation
前提事先进行质疑 of the presupposition of those claims
所谓前提 就是存在一个稳定 中立的 that there is a stable neutral moral subject
道德主体 来承载伦理问题 to ground the project of ethics
所以 福柯讨论伦理的时候 他的意思并不是 So when he talks about ethics, Foucault is not talking about
要调整道德准则 tweaking our moral norms
也不是要根据人的需求 扩充道德准则 or even expanding them to suit our needs
他不是说要让婚姻和洗手间更具包容性 so that now marriages and bathrooms can be more inclusive
对那些被排斥的人 and even contain those little excluded ones
对那些不正常的人一视同仁地开放 those little abnormals
事实上 福柯思考伦理的方式是 Rather when Foucault thinks about ethics
他试图记录人类 he thinks about historicizing our construction
作为一种有性的生物 被建构的历史 as sexual beings
这种建构 within a grid of
发生在一个随时间流逝而变动的价值观网络中 temporally shifting values
具体来说 Specifically
福柯在他的《疯狂史》中 one of the things Foucault does in History of Madness
曾经仔细追踪过古典时期占上风的理性主义 is to carefully trace the rise of rationalism during the Classical Age
这段著名的研究中 福柯是拿笛卡尔开刀的 He does this famously by beginning with Descartes
笛卡尔在《第一沉思录》中 借助我思将疯狂 who in his First Meditation, excludes madness from the cogito
排除出思考主体之外 the thinking subject
下面引用笛卡尔的《第一沉思录》 And this is from his First Meditation
除非也许我觉得我也像那些疯子 Unless perhaps I think that I am like some of those mad people
他们的大脑被黑胆汁蒸汽所伤 以至于 whose brains are so impaired by the strong vapor of black bile
他们身为乞丐 却坚称自己是国王 that they confidently claim to be kings when they are paupers
他们一丝不挂 却坚称自己身披紫袍 that they are dressed up in purple when they are naked
他们要么头脑呆滞 that they have an earthenware head
要么头脑空无一物 要么就是充满玻璃渣子 or that they are a totally hollowed-out shell or are made of glass
但是那些人都是疯子 But those people are insane
如果我以任何方式模仿他们 and I would seem to be equally insane
那么我也可以被看作是疯了 if I followed their example in any way
请大家别忘了 我思故我在 Now, don't forget, cogito ergo sum
我思故我在 从而 疯癫被排除出去了 I think therefore I am, with the exclusion of madness
正如福柯所指出的 as Foucault points out
思考 是由寻求真相的主体 thought as the sovereign exercise carried out
所做出的 最高形式的行为 by a subject seeking the truth
从此以后 思考就再也无法摆脱理性了 can no longer be devoid of reason
所以 只要思考 就不可能有疯狂 So thought cannot be mad
这种排斥的后果是什么呢？ What are the implications of this exclusion?
如果说我思故我在 那么说 疯狂 If cogito ergo sum and to be mad
就等于理性的泯灭 就等于无法思考 to be devoid of reason, is to fail to think
于是 疯狂 就没有资格使人成为人 then to be mad is to be disqualified as an I
从而无法成为主体 It is to fail to be a subject
此外 福柯还指出 Further, as Foucault also points out
不仅笛卡尔将疯癫从我思中驱逐出去 not only does Descartes exile madness from the cogito
而且这种对疯癫的排斥 也是一种伦理的排斥 but this exclusion of madness is an ethical exclusion
伦理排斥所采用的机构形式 正是 The ethical exlcusion takes the form institutionally
福柯所说的大禁闭 of what Foucault calls the great confinement
当时 百分之一的巴黎居民 when one percent of the Parisian population
都被关进了综合医院里 was locked up in general hospitals
17世纪 巴黎中心的禁闭场所 The 17th century lockdown in the middle of Paris
象征着 综合医院转变成了福柯所称的 turned the general hospital into what Foucault calls
道德机构 a moral institution
他们的领导有一种道德责任 whose directors had a moral charge
如此一来 笛卡尔主义现代理性的诞生 Thus, the Cartesian birth of modern reason
也意味着一种新道德的诞生 is also the birth of a new morality
正如福柯所说 古典时期 As Foucault puts it, in the Classical Age
理性是在道德范围内诞生的 reason is born inside the space of ethics
许多被禁闭的人 如果放到今天来看 Many of those who were locked up were those
仍然是道德思考 或者说 道德警察 的模范案例 who today remain the exemplary objects of moral reflection
这些人 今天我们会叫他们酷儿 and I would add moral policing, those we might call queer
所以被禁闭的人 有很多种 So the people who were locked up, there were many
他们中有浪子 妓女 but they included libertines, prostitutes
手淫者 鸡奸者 等等一些人 masturbators, sodomites, and so forth
这些都属于福柯所说的 不正常的人 Foucault's little abnormals again
这里总结一下福柯的说法 To summarize Foucault's argument here
并跳过大量细节 and skipping over lots of detail
通过将笛卡尔与大禁闭并列 by pairing Descartes with the great confinement
福柯说明 第一 对疯癫的放逐 Foucault shows first that the exile of madness
既是理性 也是道德方案 第二 was both a rational and a moral project, and second
这种理性道德所瞄准的 that this rational moral project
正是在不遵守性行为的常规的那些人 would target sexual deviants in particular ways
我在书的最后一章详细地讲述了 The last chapter of my book elaborates
我对伦理的 更全面的看法 my argument about ethics more fully
从而将读者引入福柯的爱欲理论 moving us toward what I call an ethics of eros in Foucault
这里给大家一个提示 But just to give you a hint
一开篇 我给出的伦理的定义 I start with a different definition of ethics
就跟刚才伦理学中心主页上的定义不同 than the one provided by the Ethics Center
伦理之于我和福柯 不只是一种价值观 Ethics for me, and for Foucault, is not a body of values
不是一种文化对善与恶的评判标准 by which a culture comes to understand itself as good or bad
相反 福柯在建立一种 Rather, Foucault is developing
我们可以称之为后道德的伦理 what we might call a post-moral ethics
是对构建那些价值观的基本 an interrogation of the assumptions underlying
假设的一种质问 the constitution of those values
向伦理提出质疑 就是 To ask the question of ethics is to ask
对一系列价值观本身 导致这种质疑的 how questioning can occur in a manner
价值观本身 that puts into question the body of values
提出质疑 that led to the questioning
这就是哲学家查尔斯·斯科特 以尼采为榜样 This is how the philosopher Charles Scott, following Nietzsche
1990年 在《伦理问题》一书中提到的 puts it in his 1990 book, The Question of Ethics
福柯也以尼采为榜样 Also following Nietzsche
区分了伦理和道德 Foucault distinguishes between ethics and morality
他说道德是 灾难性的 这一点很著名 He famously calls morality catastrophic
此外 这是至关重要的 道德的灾难性 Further, and this is crucial, the catastrophe of morality
据福柯说 源于西方道德主体 springs for Foucault from the Western subject
即承载道德的基础 as morality's ground
具体而言 福柯质疑的是真相的主体 Specifically, Foucault puts into question the subject of truth
和伦理的代言人 the ethical agent
它们的道德评判 其前提是 whose moral judgments presume epistemic
对世界的认识是具有确定性的 certainty about the world
这样我将福柯的伦理理论 This is how I link Foucault's ethics to
与《疯狂史》联系起来的 History of Madness
《疯狂史》解构了 History of Madness does the work of undoing
西方的理性道德主体 the rational moral Western subject
在福柯回顾他自己一生的工作时 In Foucault's own retrospective view of his life's work
他用下列言辞描述了自己的工作 he describes his work in precisely these terms
是对主体性和真相之间的关系的 as an extended interrogation into the problem of the relation
一种全面的质疑 between subjectivity and truth
值得注意的是 他称这种质疑为伦理 Significantly, he calls that interrogation ethics
我一直致力于研究 I've always been interested in this problem of the relation
主体和真相之间的关系 between the subject and the truth
福柯在1984年的采访中说 Foucault tells his interlocutor in a 1984 interview
而且 这个问题始于疯癫 And further this problem begins with madness
像我开始所说的 我也一直喜欢研究 As I said when we started, I have always been interested in
主体和真相之间的关系问题 the problem of the relationship between the subject and truth
我的意思是 I mean
如何知道主体是否处在某种真相游戏之中？ how does the subject fit into a certain game of truth?
我研究的第一个问题是 The first problem I examined was
为什么疯癫成为了一种问题 why madness was problematized
从某个时间开始 通过一系列做法 starting at a certain time and following certain practices
疯癫成了一种疾病 被纳入某种医学模式之下 as an illness falling under a certain model of medicine
疯狂的主体 How was the mad subject
该如何置身于 由医学模式 或某种知识 placed in this game of truth
所界定的一场真相游戏之中？ defined by a medical model or a knowledge?
福柯进一步 Foucault further clarifies this link
澄清了这种关系 疯癫 between madness and the relation
与主体和真相之间的关系 between subjectivity
他的做法 是在所有的研究中 and truth by insisting on his attempts
都对西方本我一致的主体进行解构 to undo the self-identical Western subject in all his work
我不赞成以主体 What I rejected was the idea of
作理论奠定研究的做法 starting out with a theory of the subject
例如 现象学或者存在主义的做法 as is done, for example, in phenomenology or existentialism
继而 在这一理论基础上 and, on the basis of this theory
质问 某种特定形式的知识 如何是可能的 asking how a given form of knowledge was possible
我想说明的是主体是如何构建自己的 What I wanted to try to show was how the subject constituted itself
以一种固定的形式或者 through certain practices that were also games of truth…
一个疯狂或健康的主体 in one specific form or another
一个行为不良或者行为正常的主体 as a mad or a healthy subject
通过真相游戏中的一些特定实践…… as a delinquent or nondelinquent subject
主体不是一种实体 The subject is not a substance
它是一种形式 It is a form
这种形式不可能一直或大体忠实其原本的形式 and this form is not primarily or always identical to itself
这是最难理解的部分 That's the densest part
现在我们看看性游戏 Now we get to sex play
档案馆里的性游戏 Sex Play in the Archives
福柯着手研究档案学时 也玩过真相游戏 Foucault played these truth games when he entered the archives
在他1977年的文章 《无名者的生活》中 In his 1977 essay, Lives of Infamous Men
福柯追溯了档案馆中储藏的 Foucault returns to the Archives that
关于疯癫的文件 hold the documents of madness
警局的报告 医生的诊断 the police reports, doctor's notes
医院和精神病院的官僚手续 bureaucratic procedures for hospitals and asylums
以及亲属给当局发送的 and those infamous letters
著名的信件 sent to the authorities by family members
请求将自己的亲人关禁闭 即 王印文书 to have their loved ones locked up, known as Lettre de Cachet
福柯回去查阅那堆文件 Foucault returns to this pile of documents
这些材料记录了那些禁闭的人的经历 these material traces of those who were locked up
正是这些人 that formed the basis of
早在十五年前构成了《疯狂史》一书的基础 the History of Madness 15 years earlier
他说那片文章中最大的力度 He speaks in that essay of the intensity
都是在档案的字里行间中流露出来的 that sparks through the archival traces
它们所讲述的真相 具有一种动人心魄的力量 the jostling violence of the facts they tell
福柯反复使用强烈一词 He uses the word intensity again and again
来激发这些闪光的存在 to evoke these flash existences
正是这些诗意般的生活 these poem-lives from the first intensity
构成了福柯在20世纪50年代 that motivated him in the 1950s
写作《疯狂史》的动力 when he was first writing Madness
并似乎将这种力度 to the intensity they still seem
一直保留到20世纪70年代末 to have when he returns to them
福柯再次查阅它们之时 in the late 1970s
而且这些档案本身具有非常大的力度 And the archives themselves are traversed by intensities
它们都属于不见天日的档案 for they hold in their shadows particles
但里边却包含着一种能量的缩影 endowed with an energy
非常微小 难以辨认 但却因此而更为强烈 all the greater for their being small and difficult to discern
每个档案记录都是生命的一种缩影 Each archival trace is a particle of life
是生命最有力的一刻 the most intense point of a life
是能量最浓缩的一点 the point where its energy is concentrated
即生命对抗权力的那一刻 when it comes up against power
这些生命缩影并非我们所说的生物 These particles of life are not what we might call
或生命本身 bios or life itself
它们不是生物分子 They're not the biological molecules to be found
能通过现在的生物能力和显微技术来发现 through the microscopic technologies of modern bio power
它们不是一种实体 They're not a substance
福柯所说的 有力 and the intensity of which Foucault speaks
不是生活本身的本质或属性 is not an essence or property of the lives themselves
而是 生命遇到权力所产生的一种后果 Rather, the intensity is the result of their encounter with power
生命对抗权力的一刻 the most intense point of a life
也就是生命最有力的一刻 when it comes up against power
这种有力 我认为它是属于情欲的 That intensity is erotic, this is my claim
因为它跟真实有关 because it engages the real
真实的生活就体现在这些之言片语中 Real lives were enacted in these few sentences
体现 一词法语为jouer 也有游戏之意 and that word enacted jouer also means to play
正是生命中的这些 It is the stuff of life
让这些话语的碎片具有了情欲的性质 that makes these fragments of discourse erotic
陷阱 武器 哭喊 姿势 态度 策略 阴谋 Traps weapons cries gestures attitudes ruses intrigues
身体的存活和消亡 bodies that lived and died
正是这种情欲的有力 And it is this erotic intensity that distinguishes
使它区别于文学角色 them from literary figures
没有任何一位文学作品中塑造的黑暗英雄 None of the dark heroes that literature has invented
对我来说 能比得上这些人所带给我的有力感 have appeared as intense to me as these cobblers
这些鞋匠 逃兵 小贩 公证人 these army deserters, these garnet sellers, these scriveners
流浪僧人 这些狂热 可憎 悲惨的人们 these vagabond monks, all of them rabid, scandalous or pitiful
福柯写道 不同于文学 Foucault writes. Unlike literature
这些诗意般的生活所具有的情欲的力度 the erotic intensity of these poem-lives comes
单纯地来自一点事实 quite simply from the mere fact
那就是 我们知道他们曾经活过 that they are known to have lived
所以 这些诗意般的生活遇到权力的时候 So it's in the play of these poem-lives
它们的交织就发出光来 and their encounter with power
就像吉罗岱笔下《沉睡的恩底弥翁》 illuminated like Girodet's Sleep of Endymion
被一束光所照亮 by a beam of light
于是 就成了福柯陛下的情欲 that they become in Foucault's hands erotic
重要的是要知道 与权力之间的冲突 It's important to know that the clash with power
不足以照亮我们的生活 is not enough to illuminate those lives for us
仅仅是与权力之间的冲突还不够 So the clash of power alone is not enough
对于我所说的伦理的直言 not enough for what I'm calling an ethical parrhesia
即一场坦率的谈话 a frank speech
一场诉说真相的谈话 还不够 or truth-telling speech
相反 是在福柯本人跟档案馆文本的相遇中 Rather, it is in Foucault's own archival encounter with these texts
追寻着这些人所属的现实的碎片 trailing the fragments of a reality they are a part of
在福柯自己的历史哲学真相游戏 in his own historical philosophical game of truth
或者说知识权力的游戏中 or power of knowledge
这些生活才能变成有一种 that these lives become
具有情欲力度的诗意生活 poem-lives with an erotic intensity
一种持久的光芒 福柯原话 a luminous persistence that quotes
让他们从黑暗中脱颖而出 snatches them from the darkness
当福柯进入档案中的时候 When Foucault enters the archive
档案的本身就被改换了 the archival body is transformed
文件的新部分具有了情欲性 New parts of the archive are eroticized
诗意生活和权力之间产生了冲突 and a new clash between the poem-lives and power
这个档案馆中的性游戏 This sex play in the Archives
创造了新的阴影组合 creates new configurations of the shadows
创造了档案本身的新面目 and profiles of the archival body
从这个意义上说 In that sense
福柯与档案的遭遇 是一场战略性的遭遇 Foucault's encounter with the archives is a strategic one
像他所描述的爱欲游戏 like the amorous game he describes
在《伦理关注自我作为一种自由实践》 in the Ethics of a Concern for the Self
一书中所描述的 as a Practice of Freedom
福柯研究档案时 In his approach to the archives
他对他者施加权力 he wields power over the other
他在黑暗中发现的历史性的他者 the historical other he finds in the darkness
但是 在这场知情者与已知的相遇中 But in that encounter between knower and known
福柯和历史他者之间 between Foucault and the historical other
权力的关系就变成了 the relation of power becomes
一种开放结尾的战略游戏 a sort of open-ended strategic game
这里的档案 本是已知的角色 where the archives, the known
现在却变成了知情者 act on the knower
因此 福柯说 权力的情形可能得到逆转 thus, quote the situation of power may be reversed
通过一种情欲伦理的倾听方式 by an erotic, ethical listening
消除了主体对寻求知识的意志 that undoes the subject in his will to knowledge
就在知情者身上引发了共鸣 producing vibrations
身体感触和感觉 physical sensations and feelings in the knower
矛盾的是 它们没有名字 也不为人所知 that paradoxically cannot be known or named
落满灰尘的档案记录下来的这种权力游戏 The power play that is recorded in the dusty archive
就连手的抓痕都保留着 the site that preserves the claw marks
以上都是福柯关于理性主义的创伤的原话 those are Foucault's words of rationalism's wounding
这种权力游戏 被转换成一场全新的权力游戏 is thereby transformed in a new game of power
通过福柯对这些生命的诗意重塑 变成 that in Foucault's poetic refashioning of those lives becomes
爱 激情 性快感的一部分 a part of love, of passion, and sexual pleasure
福柯对个人经历的历史痕迹 Foucault's erotic attention to
所投注的这种情欲式的注意力 historical traces of bios contrasts with
与尼采所称的 哲学家从事非历史性思考时 what Nietzsche calls the hallowed custom with
所遵循的神圣传统 which philosophers to engage
形成鲜明的对比 in an unhistorical thinking
福柯跟尼采一样 Foucault, like Nietzsche
是反哲学的历史哲学家 is an anti-philosophical historical philosopher
但福柯是通过历史来反历史的 but anti-historical in his histories
他允许哲学触碰非哲学的领域 who allows the philosophical to touch the non-philosophical
为了纪念恩师Jean Hypollite what Foucault calls experience
福柯称之为经验 in his tribute to his teacher Jean Hypollite
允许哲学来改造非哲学 and thereby to transform him
这种对人生经历的心灵式探求 The spiritual approach to traces of bios
正是福柯所说的爱欲艺术 is Foucault's arts erotica
福柯作为自由思想家的艺术实践 His artistic practice as a feeling thinker
以及福柯艺术作为生活方式的理念 and his conception of art as a way of living
不同于之前既定的 传统的科学 历史 Unlike the pre-given packages of traditional scientific, historical
或法语纯文学形式 or belles lettres literary forms
艺术打开了一种转型的 心灵的可能性 art opens the spiritual possibility of transformation
艺术就是虚构 是伦理之诗 Art is fiction-making, an ethical poiesis
是新生命形式的觉醒 the awakening of new forms of life
从《疯狂史》出版的那时起 From the time of the publication of a History of Madness
福柯一直被指责是在将非理性浪漫化 Foucault has been accused of romanticizing the irrational
但是福柯既不浪漫 也不是没有理性 But Foucault is neither romantic nor irrational
作为一个情感思考者 他的实践是情欲性的 As a feeling thinker, his practice is erotic
在福柯一再的 In his repeated spiraling
强迫性的 甚至是神经质的 obsessive perhaps delirious returns
向一种隐匿的非理性回归的同时 to the silhouettes of a faded unreason
其实 福柯是在将一种对生命的 Foucault brings to the fore a concrete
审美性的审查 落成实践 practice of an aesthetic work on bios
这些历史的鬼魂 those ghosts of history
现代的生命逻各斯 将他们视作技术的对象 who appear in modern bio logos as the object of techniques
在它们与权力的斗争中 被历史点亮 Illuminated by history in their clash with power
福柯所说的 无名者的生活 the infamous lives Foucault invokes
被一种不同的张力所重新点亮 are illuminated again by a different tension
不是历史记录 than the recording
不是生命 政治的监视这种权威 审查性的审视 calculating ordering gaze of bio-political surveillance
这种注意力的张力的不同之处 That difference of attention tension
正是福柯诗意的态度 is Foucault's poetic attitude
一种情欲式的关注 近乎眷顾的好奇心 An erotic attention, a curiosity as care
一瞥之下 便足以改头换面 那就是爱 a transformative lingering that is love
在这一瞥的爱中 福柯追随尼采 In that lingering love, Foucault follows Nietzsche
进入了 思考的崩溃所开拓的一个空间里 into the space left open by the collapse of his thought
尼采对价值观的重新评估 Nietzsche's transvaluation of values produced
产生了《权力意志》中的强力伦理 the warrior ethics of a will to power
没有任何柔情存在的余地 除非是疯子 that could make no space for tenderness, except as insanity
尼采的柔情流露 那是在1889年 Nietzche's moment of tenderness when in 1889
他搂着一匹被殴打过的马 he swings his arms around the neck of a horse being beaten
历史上认为 那时起 尼采就坠入了疯狂的深渊 is historically registered as his fall into the abyss of madness
性之外 跟随尼采的脚步 In Nietzsche's wake, after sex
福柯对于档案中所记录的生命 情欲式的眷顾 Foucault's erotic care for the lives in the archives
强迫世人正视自己伤害别人的能力 Forces the world to confront its own capacity to wound
这些破碎的血肉 to account for the scraps of flesh
都是权力的利爪造成的 they've bloodied by the claws of power
福柯重塑了 Foucault transfigures
爱者和被爱者的角色 erastes and eromenos, lover and beloved
这些都是古希腊的画像 And these are some Greek images
从现代的伦理的直言角度来看 From a modern ethical parrhesia
这种爱欲伦理其实指的是一种有力的 this ethics of eros, names the intense
思考和情感 一种近乎眷顾的 情欲式的好奇心 thinking and feeling, an erotic curiosity as care
指向受伤的 脆弱的 被爱的他者 toward the wounded vulnerability of the beloved Other
这样 福柯的疯狂就能 Thus Foucault's madness makes way
不仅仅如尼采所言 为新观念开拓道路 not only for the new idea, as Nietzsche would put it
还能为柔情开辟一片天地 尼采之后的柔情 but also for a tenderness that comes after Nietzsche
当我在诺曼底档案馆的修道院里发现了 The same tenderness I felt in my own passionate encounter
一位哲学家的生命里 支离破碎的真相 with a fragments of the reality of a philosopher's life
这段激情的相遇里 in the monastic space
我也感受到了同样的柔情 of the Normandy Archives
在那里我发现了一个小疯子 There, I found a petit fou
名叫福柯 我会永远热爱他 named Foucault I will never cease to love
第五节 愚人之笑 5 A Fool's Laughter
故事很短 It's very short
在2008年八月 我回到诺曼底档案馆 Le Courage de la Vérité
听福柯的最后一堂讲课 In August 2008, I returned to the Normandy Archives
是关于古代的犬儒之士 to listen to Foucault's last course
《真相的勇气》 on the ancient cynics
他最后一次讲课是3月28号 He died not long after his final March 28 lecture
不久后1984年 6月25日 from complications of AIDS
逝于艾滋病并发症 on June 25, 1984
图书馆中 能听见风不断地呼啸而过 The wind howls through the library hour after hour
我听着福柯鬼魅般的声音 as I listen to the ghost voice
时而激越 时而微弱 sometimes lively, sometimes fading
我感受到12世纪僧侣的孤寂 I feel the loneliness of the 12th century monk
和20世纪的农民 and the 20th century farmer
蜷缩在纳粹轰炸后的废墟旁的感受 crouched in the debris of a Nazi bombardment
福柯的声音变得越来越无力 Foucault's voice grows weaker
越来越快 越来越尖 faster, higher
像风筝一样忽闪而过 the flash of a kite disappearing
是一个歇斯底里女人的声音 It is a voice of the hysteric
法语说la Folle 像尖叫的爆竹 la Folle, the tail of a firecracker screeching
他的肉体 大脑 His fleshy matter, the body of the brain
都将被侵入的疾病细胞所蚕食 will be eaten away by the invading cells
无情地吞噬他的灵魂 也就是他的身体 This relentless devouring of the mind as body
这 就是福柯证明笛卡尔是错的 最终极的证据 will be Foucault's ultimate proof of Descartes' error
随着时间流逝 风的呼啸声更大了 The wind howls louder as the day progresses
偶尔被隆隆的笑声打断 occasionally broken by peals of laughter
是福柯的学生 还有我的笑声 Foucault's students, and my own
福柯在谈论犬儒之父 第欧根尼 Foucault is talking about the Cynic, Diogenes
别人对待他像对待狗一样 Treated like a dog
第欧根尼去参加宴会 人家扔给他一块骨头 Diogenes arrives at a banquet and is thrown a bone
于是他转身 像狗一样对客人尿尿 then turns around and pisses on the guests like a dog
我忍不住发笑 引来几道目光 I can't help but laugh, drawing glances
法兰西学院的学生也笑了 At the College de France, students laugh, too
另一个故事 第欧根尼吃生肉 another story, Diogenes eats raw flesh
据说吃了一只活章鱼后 死了 purportedly dying after consuming a live octopus
又一阵狂笑 Another burst of laughter
但在这笑声里 But beneath the hilarity
我感受到了与福柯一样的不安 I feel the same uneasiness that Foucault felt
当他开始给学生读博尔赫斯的时候 when he starts reading Borges
这也是《词与物》的开篇 this is the beginning of The Order of Things
正如博尔赫斯所言 在这里 笑声指引着我 As with Borges the laughter points me this time
穿过对正确的生活的丑闻式的复制 through the scandalous doubling of the correct life
穿过犬儒者的生命 in the cynics' practice of a barking life
走向一种令人不安的无耻 toward a disquieting shamelessness
另一种生活的 没有空间的思考 the thought without space of the Other Life, la Vie Autre
福柯应该会喜欢 Foucault would have appreciated
我在这庄严的 修道院般的空间中 my fool's laughter
所发出的愚人的笑声 in the midst of the solemn monastic space
这空间受到过战争的洗礼 重建 refurbished after the war's destruction
以保留住历史痕迹 to preserve the traces of history
福柯歇斯底里的声音正是一种痕迹 His hysterics voice is one of those traces
事物消逝时 投下的一抹阴影 the shadow cast by something as it's leaving
尽管我努力在听 声音依旧变得微弱 but it's too late. Voilà! Merci
3月28日 那是最后了 Even as I'm listening, the voice grows weaker
福柯最后说 我有事情要跟大家说 I reached the end, March 28
但是已经太晚了 就这样吧 谢谢 I had some things to tell you, Foucault says at last
这是我听到他说的最后的几句话 These are the last words I hear him utter
风筝消失了 被狂风所带走 The kite disappears, carried off by a howl
我不情愿的放开那条脆弱的风筝线 Reluctantly, I let go of the fragile string
让它留在那里 随风飘扬 that held it there, hovering
再为我们多留那么一会吧 谢谢大家 just a little bit longer, for us. Merci
大家能听到我说话吗？ OK, can everyone hear me?
谢谢 林恩 真棒 Thank you, Lynn. That was fantastic
这是一个完美的 有感情的回顾 It was a fantastic overview of the emotional feel
也是对书的知识范围的一种综述 and into the intellectual reach of the book
我想问你一些问题 What I'd like to do is ask you some questions
借此引出一些本书的主题 that kind of bring out more of the themes of the book
我有幸在这周末 I had the good luck this weekend to be able to
提前读了这本书 read the book in advance
很棒 就在外面就可以买到 and it is fantastic. It's available for sale outside
我建议大家在买《疯狂史》之前 and I would ask that you buy it
先买这本书 before you buy History of Madness
两本都该买 但应该先买这本 You ought to buy both, but you should buy this one first
好 我第一个问题是关于神话的 OK, so my first question is about mythology
因为今天你谈论的书中 what the difference is between psychobiography…
充满了关于档案的乐趣 对吗 because in the book you're talking today
我希望你能谈谈 and the book is full of the joy of the archive, right?
心理传记与……之间的区别 So I'd like you to say a little bit about
你的书显然不属于心理传记 which this book clearly is not
有一本书 很著名 很不要脸 and there is a scandalous
就是福柯的心理传记 biography of Foucault
那么心理传记 和刚才你所说的 用爱去读 So what is the difference between psychobiographical data
它们之间的区别是什么？ and what you're calling reading with love?
我们知道福柯说过 Because Foucault talks about being suffocated
谈论生平细节简直令人窒息 by the biographical detail
Droit记者努力要从他身上挖生平细节 that Droit is kind of extracting from him in some way
那么个人生平的材料 How can one use biographical data
究竟该如何批判性地 分析性地使用？ critically or analytically?
是 我觉得这个问题确实很重要 Yeah, I think that's a really great question
传记材料的使用总是很危险 The use of biography is always dangerous
而且福柯说一切都很危险 对吗？ and Foucault famously said everything is dangerous, right?
但我认为 我在使用档案材料时 But I think what I tried to be aware of
努力要让自己意识到的 when I was using the archival material
就是形式问题 我该如何使用材料 was the question of form
才不至于 将福柯这个人 and how can I use that material in a way
限制住 套死在某种特定的形式里 that doesn't pin Foucault down through a particular form
传记是一种形式 它是一种生命的叙事 So biography would be one form that produces a narrative of a life
有一种特定的(听不清)它有固定的结构 with a certain (INAUDIBLE), it has a certain structure
结构是由一些特定的前提奠定的 That has certain presuppositions underlying it
比如说该从童年开始写 写完一生 that you start with childhood and you move through
它设定好了生命具有发展阶段 例如 It assumes developmental stages in a life, for example
它可能会假定 童年所发生的事情 将会决定 It assumes that what happened to us as a child is gonna determine
我们长成什么样的大人 what we become when we're an adult
我认为 福柯认为 And for Foucault, I think all of
这种现象 是跟心理学这门科学的 that is very much connected with
前提假定有关系的 the assumptions of the science of psychology
福柯认为 这是从实证主义中产生的 which for him is something that emerges out of positivism
这也是一种 把事情说死的方法 which again is an attempt to pin things down
这就是我为什么 采用了共鸣的写法 That's why I used the device of the reverberation
借助两种叙事之间的变换 来避免这种僵化 between the two narrative voices as a way to try to avoid that
大家如果读这本书 And also, if you read the book
你会发现它不是一种个人的叙事 you'll see that it's not the personal voice
它是关于我的 还有许多关于尼采 it's about me, there's a whole bunch about Nietzsche
关于福柯的内容 and there's a bunch about Foucault
所以它不是一本 就人言事 的书 so it isn't all, let's tell the story about this one life
它是一本支离破碎的书 It's fragmented, I would say
所有这些碎片就像爆竹 And those fragments are firecrackers also
能够燎原希望吧 希望它们能够燎原 And those fragments ignite. Hopefully, I mean, I hope they ignite
这本书关于酷儿理论思考的 One of the great contributions of this book
一个重要贡献是 in terms of thinking about queer theory
它讨论了酷儿理论的起源和走向 about where it's come from, where it's going
你质疑了不少酷儿理论 is that you question the foundation
奠基的基础 on which a lot of queer theory has been built
你称之为 弗洛伊德-福柯主义 这个提法很好 which what you call very nicely Fruedo-Foucaultdianism
是弗洛伊德 so a kind of melting together of Freud
和福柯的一种结合 and Foucault as the basis of
作为我们思考酷儿的基础 how we have come to think about queer
你在书中给出了令人信服的观点 说 这种基础 You argue very convincingly in the book that this is actually
其实并不牢靠 an incoherent foundation
按照目前已有的方式 you can't really put these two things together
是没法将这两者结合起来谈的 in the way that they have been put together
你可以就此多讲一点吗 Can you just say a little bit more about that
能不能多讲一点 and say perhaps
你认为 这种可能性的出现是为什么 how you think such a possibility emerged
以及你会怎么处理这种特殊的安排？ and what you want to do with this peculiar arrangement?
首先我想说 我不是想要试图抛弃心理分析 Yes, I should say first of all, I'm not out to get rid of psychoanalysis
我认为心理分析是非常丰富的 I think psychoanalysis is incredibly rich
我认为 I think
心理分析对性学家的吸引力之一 是在于 one of its attractions for people who think about sexuality is that
心理分析能为性学家提供一系列 it provides us with this incredibly rich
相当丰富的故事 概念 词汇 store of stories, of concepts, of vocabulary
给性学家提供一种 a way to talk about this part of ourselves
用于谈论人类非理性部分的途径 that is the irrational, right
情欲部分 也就是我们所说的性 it's the erotic, it's what we call sexuality
心理分析给了我们词汇 So it gives us a vocabulary
也给了我们一种讨论的途径 and a way to talk about that
夏娃·塞德里克曾写道 Eve Cedric once wrote
我记不清她具体是怎么写的 大意如此 I can't remember exactly how she put it, but something like
弗洛伊德所开创的心理分析学 Psychoanalysis which has Freud at its origin
目前仍是 remains our only heuristic
探讨人作为性的生物的唯一一种启发性方式 for talking about ourselves as sexual beings
我认为这就是心理分析的吸引力 非常有力 I think that's its appeal, and its incredibly powerful in that way
但我认为将其与福柯放在一起 But I think putting that together with Foucault, I mean
就今天我们所谈到的内容 也许看不出来 you probably can't tell that much from what I presented today
但是福柯对心理分析 but Foucault makes a very powerful historical
做出了一个有力的历史性批判 critique of psychoanalysis
他认为 谈话疗法 and the talking cure as something
实际上是从心理学和精神病学 that actually emerges out of
衍生出来的一种东西 psychology and psychiatry
尽管心理分析 And even though psychoanalysis
不同于心理学和精神病学 does something different than psychology and psychiatry
但心理分析的关键之一 one of the things it does is
就在于它允许人所说的话 it allows us to speak something
是科学方法所不允许的 that those scientific methods don't allow us to speak
福柯仅将它看作一种简单的逆转 Foucault just sees that as a simple reversal
他认为 谈话疗法是理性的产物 对吧 and that the talking cure is a product of reason. Right ?
因此 即使心理分析声称 So that even though it's purportedly
自己所谈论的是非理性 speaking the irrational
它也不过是一种被迫隐退到幕后的非理性罢了 it's just another version of unreason being pushed underground
这里 疯狂其实是通过理性的圈套在说话 and madness being spoken through the grid of reason
那么 显而易见的是 That model of the talking cure
这种谈话疗法的模式 就成了 then becomes obviously
如果你读过《性史》的第一行 if you've read the first line of History of Sexuality
这种对开口讲述的激励 this idea of an incitement, an incitement to speak
还有变态的扩散 and the proliferation of perversions
这就是福柯所言的 性的展开 That's part of what he calls the dispositif of sexuality
它是一种话语的圈套 界定我们 this discoursive grid that again determines us
用定义来桎梏我们 pins us down and in fact
使我们在一种特定的认知结构中 produces us as sexual beings
成为 性的人 within a certain epistemic configuration
我不是要完全否认 And so I'm not saying that you absolutely cannot
将二者结合的可能性 put those two things together
在某些项目里 in the name of some project
比如说性自由领域 这是有可能的 that we'll just call sexual freedom
但是 我认为有一点值得思考 but I think it's worthwhile to be reflective
那就是 如何让它们结合 about how one does that
因为它们各自的立场实在是太迥异了 because of the very different places from which they're coming
这似乎很特别 不是吗？ Well it seems peculiar, doesn't it?
你刚才谈到的这种分歧 That this disjunction that you've been talking
这种一直存在 about has been able to persist
但到目前还未引发过多质疑的分歧 without a lot of interrogation
是不是很特别 up to this point
在书中 你还写到了别的 The other thing that you're doing in the book
你重新定向了 is that your reorienting a little bit
《疯狂史》是如何被批判地阅读的 how the History of Madness has been read critically
将福柯的作品分期讨论是很常见的一种做法 So it's common enough to talk about Foucault's work in periods
早期 中期和晚期 the early period, the middle period and the late period
一般认为福柯关于性的研究属于晚期 对吧 The sexuality stuff is normally taken to be late, yes?
中期 嗯 中期和晚期 Middle. Well, middle and late
还有一种普遍的说法 那天 我听到一种理论说 And there's a general idea, in fact I heard someone just says a theory
权力其实是自始至终贯穿这些时期的 that power changes across those periods
诸如此类 and so on and so forth
现在 你在此书中所做的工作 Now, some of what you're doing in the book
实际上 是要求读者重新审视 is you're asking us to reassess
我们是如何将福柯划分成 how we have partitioned Foucault in this way
权力 伦理等问题 来进行探讨的 over questions of power and ethics
你能就此讲一讲吗？ Can you say a bit more about that?
当然 不知道……对于不了解福柯的人 Sure. I don't know... for those of you who don't know Foucault
对不起 这些看似 I'm sorry, this might seem like
无关紧要 但是我认为它真的很重要 Who cares? But I actually think it's really important
思考福柯作品的一般方式 通常是把它分成 So the general way of thinking about Foucault's work
知识考古学时期 is the archaeological period
谱系学时期 以及接下来的伦理时期 the genealogical period, and then there's the ethical period
有些人称之为 问题化 or some people call it the problematization
取决于你具体读的是哪一本 depending on who you're reading
也存在一些认知上的断层 And there's epistemic breaks, right
福柯在这三个时期的作品之间 which is… in my view
存在非常显著的差异 there's a very distinct difference
重读《疯狂史》 福柯第一部重要作品 between these three different periods in Foucault's work
于1961年出版 What I do in rereading History of Madness
我做的工作是 his first major work, 1961
我梳理出了《疯狂史》中早已存在的 is I trace out the genealogical threads
谱系学 and the ethical threads that are already there
和伦理学线索 in History of Madness
各个时期之间的界限于是就模糊了 It really does scramble that periodization
我用了大量的文本细节 And I just use a lot of textual detail to show
来支撑这个论点 how one could make that argument
因此说 从一开始 谱系学项目 And so the genealogical project
和伦理学项目 其实就已经存在了 and the ethical project are there from the start
特别是 Particularly
主体性与真相之间的关系这个问题周边 around this question of the relationship between
它们的存在更明显 subjectivity and truth
我刚才也提到过了 that I mentioned in my talk
教福柯这门课本来就够难了 是吧 As if teaching Foucault wasn't hard enough already, you know, OK
谢谢 So thank you
我想回到论文中的那段引用 I want to go back to one of the quotes in the paper
你个人在档案馆中的那段重要经历 When this pivotal quote that was such a moment for you
那段引文 in the Archives
关于福柯的性意识觉醒的 about his sexual awakening
他说 我觉得受到了排斥 不是说受到摈弃 He says, I felt excluded, not so much rejected
而是属于社会的阴影 but belonging to society's shadow
这确实很有趣 他所提出的是很特别的一点 This is a really interesting, special thing he's pulling out here
关于被排斥和被摈弃的不同 about the differences between being excluded but not rejected
你能就此讲一点吗？ Can you say a bit more about that?
好 这是个重要的问题 Yeah. It's such a great question
我不想过度解读福柯他在采访中所说的话 So I don't want to read too much into what just he says in an interview
但我认为 排斥的概念是…… But I do think that notion of exclusion...
即使从语源学上来说 even if you look at it etymologically, right
它来自拉丁语 指靠近 it comes from the Latin word which means to close
它指分离和监禁 So it's to separate and confine
这就是排斥的意思 That's what exclusion means
分离和监禁 To separate and confine
这就是我思导致的 That's what happens with the cogito
这就是17世纪的 That's what happens with the great confinement
大监禁所导致的 in the 17th century
这跟摈弃 放逐 不是一回事 对吧？ Which is different than a rejection as a casting out, right?
福柯很著名的一点是 One of the things Foucault famously does is
他认为大监禁 he differentiates the great confinement
和被放逐的麻风病人不属于一回事 from the model of the leper, right
麻风病人是被流放到城外的典型 which is a model of the exclusion outside the city
因而我认为 摒弃的模式 就是将其赶出城去 whereas a model of rejection I guess I should say, outside the city
而大监禁则是存在于内部的一种排斥 whereas the great confinement is the exclusion within
实际上 福柯会将这种说法 He's going to actually develop
发展成我们所说的心灵 that into an image of what we call the psyche
这是一种相似的排斥 It's a similar kind of exclusion
存在于我们称之为人类主体的内部 within this thing we call the human subject
我认为 理解存在于内部的这种分离和监禁 So I think that notion of the separation
对于理解排斥来说 and confinement within is key
是很关键的 to that idea of exclusion
不知道这是否回答了你的问题 I don't know if that answers your question
对 所以他是被内部监禁了 而非放逐 Yeah, yeah, so he's imprisoned inside, rather than thrown out
对 Yeah, yeah
是 这真有意思 Yeah, that's really interesting
好 在结束前我还有最后一个问题 OK, I have a final question before I throw it out to the floor
关于 我们已经讨论过了 This is about, we've talked about this, you know
在许多情况下 on a number of occasions
关于经验和 about the relation between experience
心理内在性之间的关系 on one hand and the psychic interiority on the other
我们倾向于认为 We tend to think of these two things
这二者是缺一不可的 对吧？ as caught up with one another, right?
当我思索我的经验时 When I'm thinking of my experience
我所思考的其实是一种内在的 心理的事件 I'm thinking of a psychically interior event
不管是死亡或者疾病这样的大事 So whether this is something major, like a death or a severe illness
还是像开车回家 采买 or whether it's something banal
这种司空见惯的小事 like driving home or buying the groceries
我倾向于认为经验 I tend to think of this experience as something
与个人的内在有关 to do with being inside of me
所以你能否谈一谈 So can you say something about
福柯对心理内在性的批判 how Foucault's critique of psychic interiority
是否能够重塑经验？ is going to rearrange the experience?
是 所以 其实伊丽莎白事先 The other ones, I thought, I can do, but this one…
已经把你的问题用电邮寄给我了 Yeah. So, Elizabeth actually
我告诉她这个问题确实很难 emailed me these questions ahead of time
其他问题我觉得还能应付 但是这个就…… and I told her this one's really hard
我已经考虑过了 但是无法给出答案 I've thought about it a little bit, and I don't have an answer
我想我们都处在(听不清)逻各斯的境地 I think we're still in (INAUDIBLE) Logos
当我思考经验时 我所思考的就是内在性 So when I think about my experience, I think about interiority
但我想福柯所想达成的 But I think that what Foucault is trying to do
不仅仅是对心理分析学 is not simply bash psychoanalysis
或者对心灵的抨击 or bash the psyche
我想福柯真正想达成的 是开拓一种能力 I think what he's really trying to do is to open up a capacity
让我们能用不同的方式来看自己 to think otherwise about ourselves
甚至走到质疑我们 自身 概念的地步 where even that concept of ourselves is put into question
如果说 我们认为自己是没有内在的 So, I mean, what would it feel like
那么会是什么样的感觉？ to think of ourselves as not having insides?
我想这就是福柯提出的问题 I think it's a question that Foucault is asking
我觉得这很难想像 I think it is hard to imagine
但福柯希望我们努力去想像 but I think Foucault wants us to try to imagine it
我想答案与主体化有关 I think the answer has something to do with subjectivation
主体化 即成为主体的过程 so the process of becoming a subject
以及去主体化 即消解主体的过程 and desubjectivation, which is the undoing of the subject
主体化和去主体化 我们可以称之 Subjectivation and desubjectivation as
是一种 共同的延展性 what we might call, co-extensibility
这种对界限的挑战 So, a kind of challenging of the borders
构成了主体与世界的关系 that constitute the relationship of the subject to the world
或说主体与客体的关系 or the subject to the object
再次 回到刚才我讲过的 Again, kind of what I was talking about
我在档案馆的经历 when I was showing how that works in the Archive
这属于一种消解了主体的思考 感情 It's a kind of thinking feeling that undoes the subject
通过福柯说的极限经验 来改变我们 through what Foucault calls limit experiences that change us
谈起极限经验时 我们一般会想到 And when I say limit experience, we tend to think
像詹姆斯·米勒的书 对吧？ like the James Miller book, right?
就像狂野的性行为 嗑药 We're talking about wild sex or drugs
或者其他让肾上腺素飞涨的活动 对吧？ or other adrenaline-inducing activities, right?
我认为极限经验不一定就是这样的 I don't think that's necessarily what an limit experience is
极限经验也可能是开车回家 采买 It could be something like driving home, right, or buying groceries
这可以是我们日常生活中的琐事 It could be what we might call everyday things
一种可以让主体产生与客体的 that produce this other kind of feeling of
联接之感的事情 the subject in relation to the object
这里 我思考的是一种共鸣 Again, I'm thinking of a kind of reverberation
转化过程中发生的共鸣 happens that is transformative
因为对于福柯而言 主客体的关系是个陷阱 Because I think for Foucault, that subject-object relation is a trap
是跟内在性的陷阱有关系的 that's related to the trap of interiority
但是经过实践 But it's through practice
这就是福柯的领域里 that's where the importance of practice
实践的重要性 in Foucault becomes crucial
正是通过实践 主体-客体 Where that subject-object
知情者-已知的关系得到了改变 knower-known relationship is changed
这种改变 正是我们的经验 and that change is our experience
这说得通吗？ Does that make sense?
说得通 Yeah, it does
我可以再说一件事吗？ Can I just say one other thing?
这种改变不仅是认知的 也是感情上的 That change is not just cognitive, but it's also affective
它与情感有关 It's also something that has to do with feeling
这就是我为什么一再强调 So that's why I really try to emphasize
福柯是一位思考 情感哲学家 Foucault as a thinking feeling philosopher
的确 我还有很多问题要问 Yeah, exactly. I have thousands of things I could continue to ask
但我想给观众机会提一些问题 好吗？ but I'd like to throw out some questions to the audience. Yeah?
提问时请用麦克风 Also, use the mic
还有请大家记住 这堂课是要上录像的 and note that this is being taped
明天你就上Youtube了 You'll be on Youtube tomorrow
谢谢提醒 Thanks for the warning
谢谢林恩的演讲 Thanks, Lynn, for the lecture
我还有两个关于伦理问题 I had two questions about the question about ethics
伦理指的是您所描述的《疯狂史》中的伦理 as you describe it in History of Madness
以及福柯后期阶段作品中的伦理 and the last part of Foucault's work
还有主体化与去主体化的问题 and the question of subjectivation and desubjectivation
您所描述的《疯狂史》一书中 Would you say that the kind of ethics
所描述的那种伦理 you're describing in History of Madness
与福柯晚期著作中描述的那种 is the same kind of ethics as care of the self
自我眷顾的伦理是一样的吗？ in the last part of his work?
还是说有点不同？这是第一个问题 Or is it something a bit different? That's the first question
第二个问题 And then the second is
至少我在课堂上所学到的福柯是这样的 at least as I was taught of Foucault
许多人 在解读福柯的去主体化过程时 a lot of people read the kind of processes of desubjectivation
比如《词与物》结尾那段 like in The Order of Things, the end of Order of Things
人作为主体 在时间长河中被抹去 where the human subject is erased
许多人将这看作一种彻底的虚无主义 from the sands of time as really nihilistic
刚才我听到你对他的解读 I hear you reading him, or seeing that
与这种看法稍有不同 a bit differently
因此我想 下面是问题 I assume it's a question
是否有必要尽快让出道路 it is a necessary process to get that out of the way so soon
为别的事物腾出空间 让它们得到经验 so something different has space to be experienced
得到感知和理解 and to be felt and to be known?
谢谢 很好的问题 Thanks, those are great questions
我想 刚才当我说 I think, when I say that
伦理贯穿了福柯的著作的时候 there's ethics there all the way through
我的意思是 他的作品里 what I mean is that there's this
始终存在一种对伦理的思考 ongoing ethical reflection, right
并且自始至终都存在一种尼采式的 And a critique of morality in a Nietzsche way
对道德的批判 from start to finish
而在福柯的生命尽头 他回到了 Now what happens in that final period is he goes back to
古希腊罗马的世界 the Greco-Roman world
他开始细致研究描述古希腊罗马的世界 He starts doing these, in my view, soporific descriptions
顺便说在我看来这很乏味 of the Greco-Roman world
我对这方面并不感兴趣 但我还是坚持读完了 It's not that interesting to me but I did trudge through it
对自我的实践的描述 And describing this practice of the self
它的一部分就是自我眷顾的伦理 and part of that would be this ethics of care
我认为 I think the other piece of that
另一方面则是自我改造的伦理 is that it's an ethics of self-transformation
也即福柯说的 自由实践 It's also part of what he calls a practice of freedom
我想说得简单点就是 Now what I want to say about that is simply that
我认为 福柯对古希腊素材的使用 Foucault, the way I see him using the Greeks
有点像是 is almost as a kind of like
做培养皿 a petri dish
像是在做试验 试验一种不同的生活方式 Just like an experiment in a different way of living
我们不是希腊人 福柯一开始就挑明了这一点 We are not the Greeks. And Foucault's really clear about that
我不认为他关于希腊人的作品 so I do not read his work on the Greeks
是一种对模范伦理生活的推崇 as in any way a model of ethical living
比如说 古希腊人崇尚诚实 Like because the Greeks practiced Parrhesia
中庸 也就是适可而止的美德 Sophrosyne, which is in moderation
那我们就有必要也照着它们做 that we have to do it that way, too, something like that
我是把这看作一种非常详细 I really think it's a very minute, detailed
具体 实在的 对一种生活方式的描述 concrete description of a mode of being
看这样一种生活方式 在当时的条件下 That is a way of looking at how it works
是如何行得通的 in this situation at this time
但我们必须靠自己去想明白 But we have to figure it out for ourselves
这就是我的答案 So that's what I would say about that
然后 在《词与物》一书 And then, in terms of the famous image
结尾那幅著名的图像中 at the end of Order of Things
客体消失了 of the object disappearing
我不认为这是福柯表达 I don't think it's necessarily Foucault saying
必须让主体消逝 的一种方式 we have to make the subject disappear
福柯笔下的因果关系从来都不是很清楚 对吧？ The question of causality in Foucault is a fraught one, right?
他谈到过(听不清)的决裂 He talks about these (INAUDIBLE) breaks
可是从来没说清楚过导致的原因 and it's never quite clear why they happen
因为导因真的是不重要的 You know, it really isn't what causes it to happen
但我认为福柯是那种 But I think Foucault's a thinker
拒绝 原因-后果 这种逻辑思考方式的思考者 who's rejecting that kind of cause-and-effect thinking anyway
但我的确觉得 我感觉 对福柯而言 But I do think for him, my sense is that it's happening
所发生的事情 不是我们所能控制的 whether it is not that we're not going to make it happen;
它会自然而然地发生 it's happening anyway
我想 这个理论 I suppose we could even
我们甚至可以引申到机器人领域 flesh out an argument about cyborgs
或者数码世界中去 or the world of the digital
不一而足 所以 and so forth, that would be example
随着主体的消逝 the disappearance of the subject
我说不好 I don't know
我们是否进入了一片崭新的认知天地？ You know, are we entering a new episteme?
我说不准 I don't know
但我肯定不会将这解读作虚无主义 But I certainly don't read it as nihilistic
就像我不会认为尼采是虚无主义者那样 in the same way I wouldn't read Nietzsche as nihilistic
杰里米？ Jeremy?
(听不清)我看看表 5点了 (INAUDIBLE)I'm looking at the clock, it's 5 o'clock
我知道有人得走了 但是我们晚开始了5分钟 I know people might have to leave but we started five minutes late
所以我们继续 so we'll go a little longer
听起来不错 Sounds good
首先 谢谢你 关于福柯 First of all, thank you
我从你身上学到了不少 and having learned a lot of my Foucault from you
当然 我同意你所说的 of course I agree with everything you've said
我发誓 I'll never think
以后我再也不会将福柯分作三个时期来看了 in terms of three periods again, I promise
你刚才所说的一些东西…… I was really intrigued when you described the...
我记下来了 觉得很有意思 I wrote it down, the care
你将好奇与眷顾联系起来讲 you made a connection between curiosity and care
你说 爱欲的重要组成部分 and really a kind of a key constituent of eros
就是一种眷顾的好奇心 was a caring curiosity
我记不得你所给出的原因了 I don't remember your exact reason
我觉得很有意思 因为在福柯的伦理学作品中 That was curious to me because in the ethical works
尤其是关于希腊的作品中 particularly the Greek works
福柯确实很强调自我眷顾 care is always Foucault really emphasizes care of the self
我所理解的你说的这种爱欲 And I took you to mean in this eros
根据你所谈到的个人在档案馆中 specially cause I heard it as related to your experience of reading
读福柯的经历 Foucault's reading of the archives
这是一种双重的 so a dual sort of reading of another
对彼此的阅读 对彼此的一种眷顾 as the care exercise towards the other
这让我产生了一种有意思的想法 So what that sparked for me was this interesting thing
因为 通常 你想到那种 Because normally when you think about like the people
《无名者的生活》中那种 who are caught up in the Archive
被困在档案馆中的人他们的问题是 in Lives of Infamous and the problem
或者 至少对我而言 问题是 or at least it's always felt to me that the problem is
他们是被生命权利所困住了 they're caught by biopower in a particular way
被凝固成了一种案例 zapped into or telegraphed into a case study
他们留下的遗迹 在遭到生命权利的 The remnant that theirs is the remnant of a real life
篡改之前 是一种真实生命的遗迹 before biopower rendered them in a particular way
对我来说 它让我想到 be desubjectivated vis-à-vis biopower
我们所采取的伦理学视角 For me, it's always struck me as well
就是让这些人能够被去主体化 what we're trying to do in the ethical stance
借此与生命权力对抗 is allowing them to
允许他们重新夺回 Allowing them to have the desubjectiveness
被生命权力所剥夺的那种去主体性 that biopower removed from them
但是对我而言 眷顾和好奇心 But it seems to me, in the care and curiosity
也是重新改换自我的一个过程 it's also about you being reworked, too
于是我想到 Which suggested to me then
鉴于我们一直以来都认为 if there is part of the ethics, I mean, so we've always know
对福柯来说 that ethics and politcs
伦理和政治总是有着千丝万缕的联系 are always interrelated for Foucault
第一次听到你的演讲时 and for the first time in hearing your talk
我想到了 虽然说没有什么特别理由 但是 The subject desubjectivified…
我们所通常理解的去主体化 I thought about the fact that we always imagine desubjectivation
一般我们都必然认为 这是一种孤独的追寻 even though there's no reason
被去主体化的主体…… we have to think about this, as a fairly solitary pursuit
是一种什么样的追寻？ A very what pursuit?
孤独的追求 A very solitary pursuit
哲学家嗑药啊 诸如此类的 You know the philosopher doing drugs or something
可是实际上 But in fact
我觉得这一点似乎暗示了一个问题 it seems to me that implicit in this that the question is
也许你会以不同的方式来理解 you may want to go a completely different way
但我认为 它所暗示的是 But it seems implicit in this that
你鼓励我们去理解的那种伦理 the ethic you're pushing us toward
是一种相互的去主体化 is the mutual desubjectivication
以打破主体-客体的二进制 To break the binary subject-object
这里的主体 客体 means the object and the subject
指的是笛卡尔式的主体 客体 as they mean in a sort of Cartesian sense
即他们都被去主体化了 are both desubjectified
从这个意义上说 它会让我们想到 In that sense, that brings to mind the way
伦理是一种真相游戏 带有政治性质 sort of the ethics is a game of truth with a political edge
伦理就是一种让这个游戏继续 Because it's about continuing this game in which
同时保持一种相互的去主体化的可能性的方法 both have the possibility of being desubjectified mutually
如果这是对的 And if that's true
那么伦理也是一种强大的推动力 then it says to me that this ethics also is a real strong push
指向我们关于 towards the assumption we make about
内在主体性意义的猜想 what inner subjectivity now means now, too
这意味着 思考内在主体性 Like what it means to think about inner subjectivity
实际上是思考相互的非主体化 而不是说 that is actually about mutual desubjectification and not about
噢 我们置身于一个自由主义的乐园中 Oh we'll both be subjects
我们都是主体 这样的 in a liberal paradise or something
是 不 我觉得这是对的 Yeah. No, I think that's right
好奇作为眷顾 这个说法其实源自福柯 And that phrase, curiosity as care, actually comes from Foucault
他在《戴面具的哲学家》 in his essay that's called The Masked Philosopher
这篇随笔中提出了这个说法 where he uses that phrase
好奇心对福柯而言 不是好东西吗 And curiosity is very fraught, right?
因为在《规训与惩罚》中 Because like in The Discipline of Punish
福柯将好奇与宗教裁判所联系在一起 对吧？ Foucault links curiosity to the Inquisition, right?
然后又与后期的规训权力形式 And then to the later form of disciplinary power
联系在一起 which is the Examination
这些都指的是一种衡量 算计的好奇心 And all that that means in a measuring
一种想要将我们 calculating kind of curiosity, right
禁锢住的好奇心 that again, pins us down
因此 好奇心跟其它事物一样 也很危险 So curiosity, like everything else, is dangerous
但当我们在一定的范围内 But I am trying to think about it how…
将好奇心变成眷顾时 But I think that when you put it with curiosity as care
当然这也不是万全之策 within that space
但我努力理解它如何…… it's not like the solution
它不是完全封闭的 对吧？ It's not total lockdown, right?
所以 如何在这范围内操作？ So how can you maneuver within this space?
我认为 对福柯而言 Which I think for Foucault is epitomized by
这是主体-客体关系的一种缩影 that subject-object relation
现在我又说回《词与物》了 again I'm going back to the Order of Things
福柯有一种说法 叫做有限性解析 The problem with that
他所指的问题是 which he calls an analytic of affinitude
自康德以来 我们就知道 which we've had since Kant
我们被困在有限的知识体制内 is that we're trapped in a regime of knowing
其中 为了了解自己 In which in order to know ourselves
我们不得不将自己转变为客体 we have to turn ourselves into objects, right?
而为了了解客体 And in order to know an object
我知道的唯一的方法是将客体转化 the only way I can know an object is by transmitting it
通过个人认知转化为主体 through my perception as a subject
所以在这种循环接替中 So it's this relay, right
我们始终无法逃出这个陷阱 it's this trap we can't get out of
而这种陷阱 福柯不是要努力去破坏它 That's the trap that he's trying to, not break out of exactly
而是试图从内部操纵它 but to maneuver within so that
让它转化成别的东西 it can be transformed into something else
我觉得作为好奇心的眷顾包含了一种情感 I'm just seeing curiosity as care including the affect
我管它叫柔情 包容 I'm calling it tenderness, I'm calling it generosity
我知道这听起来有点太女人味了 I know it's a little, I don't know, girly
可是我真觉得 我在档案馆中所感受的 I actually think that one of the things felt in the Archives
就是温柔和包容 was tenderness and generosity
这是我之前读福柯时所从未感觉到过的 And I had never felt that when I was reading Foucault before
以前读福柯的时候 我绝不会想到 Those are not words that would have come to mind
这样的词 tenderness in particular is a really interesting mode of being…
后来 关于柔情 我想了好多 when I was reading Foucault
我觉得 And I've been thinking a lot about tenderness lately
温柔是一种很有趣的模式 and I think
我不知道 温柔算是一种情感吗？(听不清) It's not my term. Vie-poème, in French
这里还有一个问题 I don't know, is tenderness an affect? (INAUDIBLE)
诗意生活是福柯的提法 There's one more question here
不是我生造的 法语是Vie-poème The term poem-lives is Foucault's
我看福柯 他终究还是一位诗人 I see Foucault as a poet, ultimately
人们一般会说 他是哲学家吧？历史学家吧？ I think people say, is he a philosopher, is he a historian?
其实他是个诗人 Actually, he's a poet
我认为 福柯他其实是想 I think that for Foucault, he's trying to take this thing
让我们所说的 生命 以原本面貌出现 that we call life in the form that it emerges
以生命权力的本貌出现 that the way that it emerges is in biopower, it is bios
生命 在这里指的是技术的客体 which bios means the object of technique
因此 生命作为技术的客体 So life as the objects of techniques
反过来又转变了技术 and again, transform it
将其变成其他东西 Turn it into something else
我所理解的诗意生活中 The way I read that phrase, poem-lives
存在一种审美转化 is that there's an aesthetic transformation
可以在物质内部中发生 that can happen within this material
这种转变的物质就是生命 The material of that transformation is life
你可以想想诗的词源 poesis You could think about it in terms of the root, poesis
这个词意味着一种创造 which is a kind of making
是一种创造 去创造 再创造 So it's a making and unmaking, a remaking
我认为 I don't mean to say that
它并不仅仅限于是一种语言或者修辞上的手法 it's just a linguistic or rhetorical play
话又说回来 这是诗 是一种诗意的态度 But again, it's a poetry, it's a poetic attitude
在福柯的世界中 知情者对峙被感知的客体时 a poetic encounter that happens in this space of Foucault
所产生的一种诗意的相遇 as the knower confronting the object to be known
并且试图将 And trying to transform that from
这段 我们可以叫它做 关系 这段关系 转变成 what we might just hyperbolically call a relationship
一种更不稳定的东西 that could become a kind of positivism
而这段关系本来是可以变成一种实证主义的 into something that is more unstable
一种更不稳定的形式 好吗？ It's more unstable, right?
这正是诗歌的作用 I'm not quite sure if we should just continue…yes. Yes. OK. Yes
它挑战我们已知的边界 It definitely also in the way that poetry does
和无法感知的事物的边界 it challenges the borders of what we know
还能继续吗？好的 and what we can't know
好 谢谢 林恩 真棒 Well, thank you, Lynn. That was beautiful
如你所知 As you know
我在米利奇维尔国家医院档案馆做研究 I'm working in the Archives of the Milledgeville State Hospital
据档案馆自称 它们是世界最大的 which is the largest in the world, according to its own claims
也许是1960年来世界第二大的 or maybe now the second largest since 1960
当时离福柯开始出书 which would have been the year
还有不少日子 before Foucault started to publish there
档案馆里有39盒采访带子 There are 30 boxes of interviews
1909年至1924年间的精神病患者入院访谈 of intake interviews, of the psychiatric patients from 1909-1924
这些来自乔治亚州的乡下人 白人黑人都有 In which these rural white and black Georgians
被问到了这些问题 are asked questions like
你快乐吗？你难过吗？ Are you happy? Are you sad?
你能看见异象吗？你和神对话吗？ Do you see visions? Do you talk to God?
神和你对话吗？ Does God talk to you?
对这些问题的回答 被用来诊断精神分裂症 The results of which just confirm the diagnosis of schizophrenia
躁郁症等等 manic depression and so forth
读到这些的时候 And so that experience you had of the Archives
我的感受 was really resonant to me
与你在图书馆的经历有共鸣 just in the middle of reading these things
所以我感谢你将它说出来 so I really thank you for that language
我会去买你的书 I'll get your book
然后先读那一章 and read it right into the chapter I've been working on
但是我有个问题 But the question that I have, though
研究美国问题 甚至是亚特兰大的女权主义者 is the question from a U.S. and even Atlanta context for feminists
可以去欧洲找种族相关材料 who go to Europe and back on the question of race
但我觉得 米利奇维尔的档案 Which I feel like the archives in Milledgeville
必须只能在当地研究 you can't not do it there
而且 最终 But also, maybe this difficult question
它提出了一个很棘手的问题 that's been phrased at the end
我不确定它是否有答案 I don't know if this would be a possible answer to it
但在我读米利奇维尔的 but as I read the Milledgeville
档案和历史时 archives and the history of Milledgeville
我发现 健康和正常人的比例 is this contraction of sanity and normalcy
大大缩水了 to more and more and more
只要看五六十年代的幽闭恐惧症人群比例 just claustrophobic proportions by the fifties and sixties
电击疗法 前脑叶白质切除术的比例 and electroshock and lobotomy and so forth
所以我认为 既然存在一种缩水 so I figure whenever there's that contraction
那么某处肯定就存在一种扩张 there's gotta be some other expansions somewhere
我开始读霍华德·瑟曼 So I started reading Howard Thurman
黑人神学家 他影响了马丁·路德·金 black theologian who influenced King
我认为 瑟曼和金 都可以算某种 And it seemed to me that both Thurman and King
都是反精神病学的萨满教巫师 were these kind of anti-psychiatric shaman
或许这整个关于自我和自我的问题 Maybe this whole question of the Self and the Ego
就像瑟曼所说的 like Thurman's Luminous Darkness
光明的黑暗 恐惧的抱持 he talks about, the hold of fear
恐惧对南方的黑人和白人心灵 like the damage that fear does
所造成的危害 on the black and white Southern psyche
打破这种对恐惧的抱持 and the way to break that hold
是一种基于大众的行为 is a kind of mass-based action
要对峙权力 重整权力格局 that confronts power and then it all gets reconfigured
这也是金的做法 And then King picks up on this
看起来 and it seems like
在50年代 60年代的南部所发生的 something else really does
一系列事情中 get shaken out of what happens
真的引发出了一些东西 in the South in the 50s and the 60s with all of these things
不知道我所说的 I don't know if this sounds like something
刚才是不是已经谈到过了 you might have been talking about or whatever
我了解你们正在做的工作 I know the work that you're doing
我觉得很优秀 and I think it's so wonderful
我想说 And I should say
写这本书的时候 Leslie and I rented a house in Milledgeville
莱斯利和我在米利奇维尔租了一个房子 while I was writing this book
所以写书的时候 so it was very appropriate and strange
我离世上曾经最大的精神病院 to be writing this book
就差几步路 just down the road
这既奇特 又合理 from what used to be the largest asylum in the world
我确实觉得你说的种族问题 I do think what you say about the question of race
很重要 很有趣 is really important and really interesting
福柯谈论过种族问题 Foucault does talk about race
他在他的《性史》的 He talks about it
第一卷第五章中谈到过 in part five of his first volume of History of Sexuality
是跟生命权利联系起来谈的 But I think Foucault's way of talking about race is one…
在《必须捍卫社会》一系列讲座中 in relation to biopower
也大量谈到过 And he also talks about it pretty extensively in his course
但我认为福柯谈论种族的方式 Society Must Be Defended
和我们这里南部思考种族的方式 I don't think it's at odds with
并没有什么分别 how we think about race in the South
其实我觉得思考福柯的方式会很有趣 I actually think it would be interesting to think about Foucault's way
福柯所探讨的种族 when we're talking about race
更多地关系到优生学的复活 而非肤色 which is less about color than it is about the rise of eugenics, right
优生学的高潮就是纳粹制度 and culminating in the Nazi regime
这就是福柯看待种族的大背景 That's the context in which he's looking at race
对他而言 And for him
种族和性基本是一回事 race and sexuality are pretty much the same thing, actually
我认为这并不完全适用于 Now I think that doesn't exactly apply to the way
乔治亚州的种族问题 we think about race in Georgia
但我认为用福柯的方式来 But I also think it would be interesting to use Foucault's
思考种族还是很有意义 way of thinking about race
将这种 有时比较僵化的黑人-白人的对立 to displace what often becomes
做一个换位思考 this static black-white paradigm
因为 有时候我觉得 Because I think sometimes our tools
我们思考美国种族的方式 for thinking about race in the U.S.
是很有限的 are somewhat limited
我知道在座有很优秀的 I know there are people in this room
种族问题研究者 who do wonderful work on race
黑人白人都有 both black and white and also you know
不同的思考种族的方式 other ways of thinking about race
我觉得这些想法是不完全相同的 I just think they're not exactly the same and probably
或许福柯会说 what Foucault would say
你必须在特定的场所 is that you have to do the genealogy right in
研究谱系学 the specific site where you're working
但这不一就完全适用 It doesn't necessarily apply in exactly the same way
但我认为从他的方法里我们能够学到很多 but I do think there's a lot to learn from him in terms of the method
我想我们应该休息了 该吃饭了 I think we're gonna let you rest, let everybody else eat
书开售了 The books are out there to buy
非常感谢你们 Thank you so much
谢谢你们 Thank you all
谢谢伊莉莎白 Thank you, Elizabeth
本节目版权归艾莫利大学所有 The proceeding program is copyrighted by Emory University